TV Licence article Discussion

RandomQ

Thanks Cornucopia

Of course the best advice is not to let it get that far, do not engage, do not let them in, do not speak to them or admit anything.

If they turn up at the door saying "Are you the occupier" or anything else, close it in their face and say No Thank you.

FreeBear

Cornucopia wrote: »

I wonder if the "operating on batteries" exemption is the basis of another more general loophole for people who are in shared accommodation who would otherwise need their own Licence for their own rooms.

The "operating on batteries" exemption only applies if you reside at an address that has a valid TV licence and you are only visiting. If you were (for example) a student normally living in Manchester, but stayed in London to study, you would need a separate TV licence for the London address - This one catches a lot of students out even when they live "off campus" in shared accommodation.

On the other hand, if you commuted down to London and just stayed somewhere for a couple of nights each week, you could probably get away with the "operating on batteries". Wouldn't stop TVL from harassing you though.

[Deleted User]

FreeBear wrote: »

If you were (for example) a student normally living in Manchester, but stayed in London to study, you would need a separate TV licence for the London address

That's not correct.

TV_Licensing_Website wrote:

A halls communal licence won’t cover your room. But you may be covered by your parents’ licence. If you think you are, please check that all of the following are true before telling us you don’t need one:

*Your out-of-term address (parents’ address) is covered by a TV Licence
*AND you only use TV receiving equipment that is powered solely by its own internal batteries
*AND you have not connected it to an aerial or plugged it into the mains.

EachPenny

The regular "Thousands still watch TV in black and white" press release and articles have come up again, this time it is 7,161 households still having a B&W only licence.

This bit interested me though:-

Neither does TV Licensing carry out checks of households claiming to watch a black and white set. "It's entirely done on trust," a spokesperson said.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46125741

So people are 'trusted' not to be watching in colour on a B&W licence, but 'not trusted' not to be watching with no licence? Sounds like discrimination to me.

And isn't that trust misplaced? Since the digital switchover, how is it possible to watch TV on B&W equipment without using equipment capable of receiving and recording in colour? Does that mean you can only watch live (in B&W) and to use the equipment for recording would be illegal?

And what about iPlayer? Presumably you are allowed to watch iPlayer in colour, even if you only have a B&W licence. Therefore if you only want to watch catchup iPlayer do you only need to buy a B&W licence? If so, then I'm surprised the number of B&W licences is not far higher.

Cornucopia

AFAIK, the question of whether people are using a Colour TV on a B&W Licence is not done "on trust", though. Unless, of course, the number of B&W Licences is now so small that it isn't worth doorstepping them?

There is a difference in the status of B&W Licence-holders and Unlicensed, which is that the wording of the Licence specifically precludes entry to premises, whereas for unlicensed households, as we know, that is a grey area subject to much misinformation, bluster and bullying by BBC-TV Licensing.

And isn't that trust misplaced? Since the digital switchover, how is it possible to watch TV on B&W equipment without using equipment capable of receiving and recording in colour? Does that mean you can only watch live (in B&W) and to use the equipment for recording would be illegal?

The B&W Licence entitles a household to watch TV broadcasts using a B&W TV, connected to a colour receiving box for reception only, not recording. This exemption has applied since digital switchover.

I suspect that iPlayer is completely off-limits with a B&W Licence.


You have to admire their wordplay in that article though. I particularly like: "A total of 7,161 UK households have failed to start watching in colour...". So it's a failing, not a choice?

oldernonethewiser

"You have to admire their wordplay in that article though. I particularly like: "A total of 7,161 UK households have failed to start watching in colour...". So it's a failing, not a choice?"


I have failed to watch any TV for the last few days.


I wonder if I am now on a (non) watch list.......

EachPenny

Cornucopia wrote: »

The B&W Licence entitles a household to watch TV broadcasts using a B&W TV, connected to a colour receiving box for reception only, not recording. This exemption has applied since digital switchover.

So as I suspected, people with a B&W licence are entitled to set up equipment which enables them to record live colour TV, but are 'trusted' not to push a button or two which would start that recording process.

Whereas presumably TVL would use as evidence the fact someone had a TV with an aerial plugged into it as 'proof' a non-licenced household had been watching live TV... even though they are in the same position of being some button pressing away from doing so. If not, then why does the 'inspection' on one YouTube clip involve the TVL staff asking the resident to switch their TV on (after the TVL staff plugged the aerial in). :whistle:

Cornucopia wrote: »

I suspect that iPlayer is completely off-limits with a B&W Licence.

Is there a way we could find out for sure?

Cornucopia wrote: »

You have to admire their wordplay in that article though. I particularly like: "A total of 7,161 UK households have failed to start watching in colour...". So it's a failing, not a choice?

Yes, wholly in keeping with their general attitude towards the public. We are not allowed to make a choice.

Cornucopia

EachPenny wrote: »

So as I suspected, people with a B&W licence are entitled to set up equipment which enables them to record live colour TV, but are 'trusted' not to push a button or two which would start that recording process.

Sorry, I was unclear - the STB must be a non-recording box. There ARE situations in which a householder is "one click" from breaking the law - like my Now TV subscription, which has both catch-up and live streamed content. But the line has to be drawn somewhere since everyone with an Internet-connected device is in a similar position.

Whereas presumably TVL would use as evidence the fact someone had a TV with an aerial plugged into it as 'proof' a non-licenced household had been watching live TV... even though they are in the same position of being some button pressing away from doing so. If not, then why does the 'inspection' on one YouTube clip involve the TVL staff asking the resident to switch their TV on (after the TVL staff plugged the aerial in). :whistle:

When TVL staff "examine and test" equipment, they are looking for evidence to support the allegation of unlicensed viewing. The capabilities of the equipment are not covered by the Licence as such.

Is there a way we could find out for sure?

Yes - it is here:-

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/nov/23/bbc-iplayer-black-white-tv-licence

Yes, wholly in keeping with their general attitude towards the public. We are not allowed to make a choice.

Just found out that you are entitled to a refund if you downgrade from a Colour Licence to B&W. It almost makes me want to sign up just to experience the corporate bad grace that would almost certainly result from such a request.

FreeBear

Bedsit_Bob wrote: »

That's not correct.

I stand corrected. That said, it won't stop TVL trying their nasty little games.

EachPenny

Cornucopia wrote: »

Sorry, I was unclear - the STB must be a non-recording box. There ARE situations in which a householder is "one click" from breaking the law - like my Now TV subscription, which has both catch-up and live streamed content. But the line has to be drawn somewhere since everyone with an Internet-connected device is in a similar position.

Ah, that makes more sense. So in effect the B&W licence is providing a relatively specific exemption from needing a full colour licence.

Cornucopia wrote: »

Yes - it is here:-
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/nov/23/bbc-iplayer-black-white-tv-licence

Thanks, I guess that rules out watching iplayer on my ZX81 then.

Cornucopia wrote: »

Just found out that you are entitled to a refund if you downgrade from a Colour Licence to B&W. It almost makes me want to sign up just to experience the corporate bad grace that would almost certainly result from such a request.

You wicked person. (I have a portable B&W set you could borrow if necessary )