TV Licence article Discussion

krixike

just forgot something: in case non-payment, once vacating the flat, the legal occupier could contact the letting agent that this tenant living under Nr so and so is still owing us something...do you really think that this can't be binding for the letting agent to withheld my deposit or forward my case to a legal platform?

Cornucopia

krixike wrote: »

Just in case, would you suggest maybe to let TVL know at least once that I do not have any TV thus not subject to the license fee or just ignore them completely?

Personally, I would say not - it is not information that you are legally obliged to provide. However, if you do tell them, then they claim to stop the letters, which you may consider a benefit.

Also, still need to know some technical support on how to hide my internet activity better...using VPN maybe?

Why do you want to hide your activity and who from?

...this tenant living under Nr so and so is still owing us something...do you really think that this can't be binding for the letting agent to withheld my deposit or forward my case to a legal platform?

The TV Licence is taxed in real time - there is no enduring liability other than in the particular scenario of clearly missed payments. Since TVL cannot require the LL or LA to make good your payments (even if they deemed them to be missed, which they won't) there is no basis for them to withhold payment from your Deposit. (It may even be illegal).

Equally, there is no basis for any liability for either Licence Evasion or Licence Debt through the Courts once you have left the address.


The key thing from all of my comments is to be clear in your own mind that you do not need a Licence. Your usage (live streaming from non-UK channels) is the only scenario that I cannot give you definitive advice on, because TVL's position is confused, and appears to be contradicted by the legislation.

I would therefore advise you to ask them, and buy a Licence if they say you need one. I have asked for further clarification on this from TVL, but have not yet received a response.

krixike

All clear (as mud..:-) ), but will leave this for now anyway.
Appreciate for all your detailed help & with at least some more clarification on this wishy-washy fee, let's see how I get on and especially for how long this situation can be maintained in the long run..

Heedtheadvice

....not a comment or to add to the debate about the main topic of this thread but to try and help you, krixite.

As Cornucopia writes there is conflicting information going around -and a lack of answer to what seems to be a perfectly valid question by him/her. In many respects it is that the law surrounding the licence requirement (as is often the case with any fast changing technological topics) struggles to keep up with the changes and results in lack of clarity and confusion. In this case (watching foreign only TV via an online connection) only really affecting a very few people. No doubt the law and the information will evolve in time!

There is a bit of clarification on the following page as to the authorities viewpoint http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/watching-online-and-on-mobile-devices-TOP14
That page says you need a licence if watching any live TV (origin does not come into it, it seems) and online services such as Now TV are included in that.

There are however still several areas where it is unclear to most of us!. I would guess (and it only is that) watching foreign live TV where it is not provided as part of a TV service (this could be on a browser using any internet service provider ) could be a 'grey' area not covered by law or clarified by case law and thus maybe unknown.

Given the need to now declare tv licenced premises when watching BBC iPlayer I would not be surprised if there was the ability to link IP addresses with postal addresses to check on that validity. There will be people trying to watch illegally.

Conclusion:
If you are doing what you say (only watching foreign TV quite legally) then I would be tempted to fill in a declaration of node licence need (can be accessed via the above web site). You may get a visit from officials to confirm that but once accepted you should have no further problems!

Concern:
You do raise alarm bells a little when you post that you want your internet access to be hidden. You may have a perfectly valid and lawful reason for that or you might just be looking for a way to beat the system. Only you know.

Footnote: I do wonder if any of the foregoing will have helped at all!:eek:

Cornucopia

Part of the problem is that this statement from TVL's present website:

You need a TV Licence to watch or record live TV programmes on any channel or device, no matter where they are broadcast or distributed from. This includes satellite or online streamed programmes from outside the UK or Channel Islands, such as sporting events and foreign shows.

directly contradicts this statement that used to be on their website until 2016:

Watching TV on the internet - You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the Channel Islands.

https://web.archive.org/web/20160131160631/http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk:80/check-if-you-need-one

When I asked them about this, they (in their usual unhelpful way) said that the law had not changed, but rather than clarify the matter and say that either the old or new info was wrong, they confusingly implied that both statements were correct. Ultimately, it became obvious that they were not going to provide a clear reasoning on the matter.

The sad thing about it is that the people most likely to want to know this information are those least likely to be able to cope with wordy nonsense from the relevant authority.

abulawright

Hiya,

Sorry for the repetition, I know there have been similar posts before in this thread but my searches have not 100% answered my question.

My Query is to do with the terminology of the student's page.

In the MSE article, it says this:

This means students whose parents have a TV licence are fine to use BBC iPlayer and/or watch live television on a tablet, smartphone or laptop that's not charging at the time, without having to pay for their own licence...

Whereas the TVL page says:

A halls communal licence won!!!8217;t cover your room. But you may be covered by your parents!!!8217; licence. If you think you are, please check that all of the following are true before telling us you don!!!8217;t need one:

• Your out-of-term address (parents!!!8217; address) is covered by a TV Licence
• AND you only use TV receiving equipment that is powered solely by its own internal batteries
• AND you have not connected it to an aerial or plugged it into the mains.

The TVL website makes it sound like it is illegal if your laptop has ever been plugged in to the mains at your student address, wheras the MSE article says it is legal so long as its not on charget at the time of watching.

So basically, my question is, do I need a TV license to watch BBC iPlayer / Live TV on my laptop if it was on charge before I started watching? My parents have a License at my non-term time address.

Thanks in advance

Cornucopia

abulawright wrote: »

So basically, my question is, do I need a TV license to watch BBC iPlayer / Live TV on my laptop if it was on charge before I started watching? My parents have a License at my non-term time address.

No.

The MSE article is a better form of words - the exemption is based on whether the laptop is connected to mains power/aerial connection at the time of viewing.

krixike

@ Cornucopia & Heedtheadvice,

Thank you for the detailed feedback on this, and noted.

regarding completing the declaration form I am still trying to wait for a while (as long as possible..) and see what happens as I can anytime say that I have never received any letter from TVL at all...no one can trace it if true or not.

Regarding hiding my browser activity is just a crafty idea, as this is still not 100% clear in which category my situation belongs to as per the law (even if their website says it more or less clearly...), however still cannot believe how the heck they can find out whether I was watching the online live telly at 9.35 pm on 21st FEB 2018 or not?? There's no way they can find it out unless their system is connected to the Pentagon or FBI!

And also wonder what other people in the same - or similar situation - do to try to make use of this loophole via a sort of VPN-solution or any other tools that are capable of hiding their browser history..
Anyway, will see how long this is situation can be sustainable, as I have been reading through some other forums on this topis, loads of people just ignore these letters from TVL and haven't even got into any bigger serious trouble (yet).

[Deleted User]

krixike wrote: »

Just in case, would you suggest maybe to let TVL know at least once that I do not have any TV thus not subject to the license fee or just ignore them completely?

In your shoes (actually, come to think of it, I am in your shoes ), I wouldn't tell them anything.

krixike

there's the point:-) pls let me know the score how long have you been in these "shoes" ? :-)