TV Licence article Discussion

samanderin

I have just moved into my first home in sept and being charged for a whole years licence even though it runs from Apr to Apr. Is this correct? I thought you would only start paying for the months you had used it. I now have to pay £28.50 for the next five months then £11 thereafter.

George_Bray

derrick wrote: »

If you do NOT watch LIVE TV. you do NOT need a licence! The TVLA employees who come round have NO RIGHT OF ENTRY to your property, say nothing and close the door on them.

I'm sure you're right about not needing a licence but, if you don't let them in to see for themselves, and just slam the door, don't you risk comeback in the form of a fine and potential court summons? Legal action sounds like a nightmare, even if you're not guilty. It might be very difficult to persuade them to withdraw a fine and even more worrying to have to attend court.

KeithP

This website will answer most questions.

An interesting read.

Volcano

George_Bray wrote: »

I'm sure you're right about not needing a licence

He is.

but, if you don't let them in to see for themselves, and just slam the door, don't you risk comeback in the form of a fine and potential court summons?

A fine or summons for what? Shutting your own door?

Legal action sounds like a nightmare, even if you're not guilty. It might be very difficult to persuade them to withdraw a fine and even more worrying to have to attend court.

This is EXACTLY the response that TVL are hoping their bullying will generate! It's also the same type of attitude that allows private parking companies to get away with parking 'fines' and Curry's to fob you off with the "should have bought the extended warranty" excuse when your washing machine breaks down after 2 months.

How can you have been on this site for 6 years and still think like that?

George_Bray

KeithP wrote: »

This website will answer most questions.
An interesting read.

It is an interesting read. Thanks for the link. I didn't read all the pages on that site but I wonder if anyone here or anywhere has reported on cases where someone is actually fined or receives a court summons. What has been the outcome, especially if there's little or no evidence that the person has actually been watching TV.

The letters on the above web site seem to indictate that he hasn't responded (each year perhaps) to confirm he's not watching TV. Isn't that asking for trouble, even if you're not legally bound to reply?

Volcano

George_Bray wrote: »

What has been the outcome, especially if there's little or no evidence that the person has actually been watching TV.

Then it doesn't go to court. TVL only dare prosecute when they know they're very unlikely to lose, mainly in cases where the person admits to it:

"I can see through your window your watching a television yet there is no licence registered at this property"

"Oh dear, yes I am, I must have forgot to get a licence"

...will be enough to convince TVL that they'll win this and thus take the householder to court (though they'll probably try and 'demand' entry so they can see if the TV is plugged into an aerial etc as this is always extra evidence that makes their case more convincing in court). As most householders know nothing about TV licencing law then they just tend to admit it in court and get fined (which of course is the law assuming they were actually watching live TV programmes without a licence). TVL are quite happy to tell you all sorts of lies (like you need a licence for a CCTV monitor!) as they have targets to hit and their staff are paid on commission, they're not interested in whether you actually need one or not:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Sa1DgmCww&feature=related

The letters on the above web site seem to indictate that he hasn't responded (each year perhaps) to confirm he's not watching TV. Isn't that asking for trouble, even if you're not legally bound to reply?

If he hasn't got a TV, has no legal obligation to inform them and they have absolutely no right to persue him for an offence he isn't committing, how is that asking for trouble? As the video above shows, it's irrelevant to them anyway.

Edit: Brilliant old advert for TV 'detector' vans!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NmdUcmLFkw&feature=related
Of course in those days there was no way to check and people believed this sort of propaganda, amazing how ridiculous it seems now eh?

George_Bray

Volcano wrote: »

Then it doesn't go to court. TVL only dare prosecute when they know they're very unlikely to lose, mainly in cases where the person admits to it:

Many thanks for the link to a great video. I currently have a TV licence and am weighing up whether I should give it up. I can see that it might invite a whole load of hassle, whatever the rights and wrongs. I agree it's akin to state terror or the behaviour of rogue traders.

The chap on the video said he doesn't have a TV. I'll keep two for watching DVDs. But even if you have the TV on - playing a DVD when they call - how can they prove it's not a DVD if you don't let them in? I assume they don't use detector vans any longer. Do they? Or are there any other current, high-tech ways of proving you are watching or recording live TV?

I'm just keen to avoid reaching the situation where they actually send you a fine or a court summons. Again, whatever the rights and wrongs, you'd be fighting the state and it would be a lot of stress, even if you are entirely innocent.

Swan_2

hi George,
I had no licence for a few years when I was living on my own & didn't watch telly

I told TVLA in writing that I was only using my telly for gaming & DVDs & they said that was fine, but they'd send someone to check I wasn't doing anything illegal

in the end they never did send anyone, but I had my telly de-tuned & unplugged from the aerial, so that if they had turned up, they could come in & see I didn't need a licence


however, you don't need to do the de-tuning & unplugging, as long as you're prepared to refuse to let them in, but I was too cowardly to face that, as a woman living alone, I didn't want the hassle on my doorstep
it might not be the way everyone would want to approach it, but it worked for me & I had peace of mind


anyway, I have a licence now because my son's staying with me, but as soon as he has a place of his own again, I'll be going back to being licence-free

moonrakerz

Swan wrote: »

as long as you're prepared to refuse to let them in, but I was too cowardly to face that, as a woman living alone, I didn't want the hassle on my doorstep
i

TVL have the same right of access as your milkman. If you write to TVL and tell them that you are removing their "implied rights of access" to your property, if they then set foot on your property you can take legal action against them.

They have also stated (in Parliament) that the removal of these rights shall not be taken as an indication that the householder is acting illegally with regard to the possession (or not) of a TV Licence.

Volcano

George_Bray wrote: »

I assume they don't use detector vans any longer. Do they? Or are there any other current, high-tech ways of proving you are watching or recording live TV?

No, they have no way of knowing except by looking through your window or listening at the door (and even then I very much doubt this could ever be used as evidence: "It was definitely Tuesday night's episode of Eastenders your Honour, I clearly heard Peggy Mitchell shout "Gerrout you little tramp!" at 19:48 hours and 7 seconds precisely".... ) TV detector vans never worked, though you might see the odd fake one parked up at shopping centres for maximum effect!

I'm just keen to avoid reaching the situation where they actually send you a fine or a court summons. Again, whatever the rights and wrongs, you'd be fighting the state and it would be a lot of stress, even if you are entirely innocent.

I entirely understand how stressful it could be. Do as Swan says and write or phone them if you want (as this should stop the letters, but only for a couple of years or so), but remember that is what the people did in the video and it doesn't necessarily stop them coming around!

You are under no obligation to open the door to them, they have no right of entry and no right to 'check' your TV. With online iplayer, the net, cheap DVDs and computer games, less people feel the need to watch TV programmes and if this forum is anything to go by, people are doing away with the need for a TV licence so you're not alone!