TV Licence article Discussion

digitalhen

Martin's FAQ for the TV license says you still need a license if you're streaming live TV from a foreign website (say, you're streaming something live from CNN or MLB).

That can't possibly be true can it? That can't be what they mean by 'live TV'?

Cornucopia

digitalhen wrote: »

Martin's FAQ for the TV license says you still need a license if you're streaming live TV from a foreign website (say, you're streaming something live from CNN or MLB).

That's what TVL would have told MSE. However, there doesn't seem to be any basis in law for it. (Since the law specifically mentions "UK and Channel Islands").

That can't possibly be true can it? That can't be what they mean by 'live TV'?

"Live" TV is a misleading term. "TV Broadcasts" or "Linear Channels" would be more accurate.

In fact, if a water-tight definition is required, I would suggest this one:-

You need a Licence to watch or record (locally) TV broadcasts received via traditional means (satellite, cable & freeview) in the UK, their Internet live-streamed equivalents, and (from today) BBC iPlayer.

CC_Popsicle

The rule interpretation questions hits overdrive oncemore as predicted.

This is exactly what the TVL/BBC wanted to achieve.

The TVL (the BBC under a different name) has basically found a way to possibly increase their income in lieu of the licence fee not being continually increased above inflation as they would have liked. They should have entered a subscription based sign in on their iplayer app. Though you may not hold a physical paper licence anyone with a licence will still have a reference number.

It will be interesting to look at their website and see how they have re-worded their general information.

For anyone who is legally licence free so long as you are not using the bbc iplayer nothing has changed except they have an additional line of in your face interrogation at your front door, delivered in their usual accusational 'you are breaking the law' type manner designed to incriminate.

These 'enquiry officers' that MSE refer to will not introduce themselves as this, they will refer to themselves as a TV licencing enforcement officer, who has ZERO rights above any other citizen. You are under no obligation to talk to them, they have no right to enter your house. Close the door on them, or better still do not answer the door if you are not expecting anyone.

Remember, all convictions are as a result of some form of confession to them. If you say nothing they will not even have your name. Not one conviction has ever been brought about as a result of any detection device, it is all confession evidence (whether the confession is actually genuine is for another debate).

NicklausIII

I have declared myself as not needing a licence after confirming i meet all the requirements and have been happy with all of that. But does the ownership of a mobile device matter? If in my work canteen they are showing the BBC naturally I don't need a TV Licence, and I don't think I would if I watched iPlayer on my work PC at my desk. where is that line drawn with my work mobile or laptop? If i used my work phone to watch iPlayer at work, is that allowed? what about at home?

Cornucopia

NicklausIII wrote: »

I have declared myself as not needing a licence after confirming i meet all the requirements and have been happy with all of that. But does the ownership of a mobile device matter?

Not ownership, just TV viewing.

If in my work canteen they are showing the BBC naturally I don't need a TV Licence, and I don't think I would if I watched iPlayer on my work PC at my desk. where is that line drawn with my work mobile or laptop? If i used my work phone to watch iPlayer at work, is that allowed?

Yes. It is up to the Company to make sure the premises are Licensed.

what about at home?

No.

biggsy137

NicklausIII wrote: »

I have declared myself as not needing a licence after confirming i meet all the requirements and have been happy with all of that. But does the ownership of a mobile device matter? If in my work canteen they are showing the BBC naturally I don't need a TV Licence, and I don't think I would if I watched iPlayer on my work PC at my desk. where is that line drawn with my work mobile or laptop? If i used my work phone to watch iPlayer at work, is that allowed? what about at home?

That is an interesting point, and I have a similar scenario but with hotels...I don't need a TV Licence of my own to watch a hotel TV, but does their licence cover me to watch iPlayer on my own laptop...


Something tells me this has not been thought through on any level!

When I moved into my house there were three letters from TV licencing, the last telling 'the occupier' that a TV was being used in the house without a licence and that they were taking me to court... It clearly stated that they had warned and then visited the property to prove it.

Unfortunately for them, the property had been empty, completely, curtains, light fittings, the works for three months previous to the date they had allegedly visited and confirmed a TV was being used!

Cornucopia

biggsy137 wrote: »

That is an interesting point, and I have a similar scenario but with hotels...I don't need a TV Licence of my own to watch a hotel TV, but does their licence cover me to watch iPlayer on my own laptop...

Yes.

Something tells me this has not been thought through on any level!

They aren't really interested in these obscure scenarios that would be near-impossible to police. (Yes, it would be better to be honest about it, and officially declare things like viewing in a public place to be beyond enforcement).

Whatever the BBC's supporters might think and say, BBC/TVL and Capita have no real interest or capability to police the Licence with anything approaching 100% effectiveness, nor is it in their interests to do so.

biggsy137

Also interesting that the first I've heard of this is today, through MSE. despite having been declared not to require a licence and having been watching iPlayer more or less daily for the past 18 months

CC_Popsicle

All the more reasons why this is so ambiguous.

It's just another point to use by the Crapita salespeople who are chancing on you incriminating yourself. Several new opportunities to distort their accusational questionning to their advantage and get their £20 bonus. They are salespeople after all.

I can hear it now after getting a response of I don't need a TV licence:

TVL at your door, 'Do you watch TV using an app?'

Hesitant occupier, 'Well, sometimes, yes....'

In their view, guilty, the actual question being delibrately worded to incriminate.

It will happen, watch you tube in a month for their new tactics.

bsod

Cornucopia wrote: »

I think you're somewhat missing the point.

The best you could say is that it *could* identify IP addresses, and BBC/TVL *could* apply to a Court to force the ISPs to divulge the account holder's name and address, and BBC/TVL *could* check that address against their database, and the BBC/TVL *could* guess whether a device powered by batteries was covered by an address elsewhere, and they *could* attend the original address and the resident could still ignore them, or decline to comment, and there would be no prosecution.

No. I corrected an out of date assumption about whether a website owner can identify battery use, which you then challenged. The particular demo I linked to, clearly says "View this demo in the latest Firefox, otherwise it does not work" at the top of the page.

The wider argument doesn't interest me, so I have no intention of reading the other 2400 posts to identify the context. There seems a lot of contributors with a solitary post to their name, could it be that someone with an obsessive interest in the subject is bumping the thread to keep it going.

Free loaders *could* just pay their share, stop looking for ludicrous workarounds or obsessing about the likelihood of avoiding prosecution (is that how adults normally choose which laws to follow?), and get on with their life. £145 is a small percentage of a typical households bills, all content has to be paid for one way or another.

as for legality and practicality, tracking of much more than ip addresses is carried out all the time, covered by a privacy policy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/privacy/information/policy/