TV Licence article Discussion
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We need a vote, just like the EU issue.
Ask the people if they want this extra tax forced on them.0 -
At last a definitive, and correct analysis from MSE!
Well done.
I thought it was terrible analysis, and wrong in many parts.
"If you watch or record shows as they're being shown on telly in the UK "
Actually, you must not watch or record shows as they are broadcast on television ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. It's not specific to the UK.
"How can I cancel? If you're absolutely sure you no longer need a TV licence, you must formally let TV Licensing know."
This isn't true. If you don't need a licence, stop paying, it's not a formal process.
"Then fill out the declaration. Everyone who no longer requires a TV licence - including those who pay in cash at certain stores or Post Offices, who don't need to do the above - needs to fill out a No Licence Needed declaration form."
No they don't need to fill in any such declaration. Absolute NONSENSE. Parliament has confirmed this.
"TV Licensing may visit. Once you've cancelled, you might find you get a visit from TV Licensing"
Yes this is likely
"to check whether you actually do need a TV licence - it says these inspections find one in five households do."
Hang on a minute, no TV licence salesman is 'inspecting' my house. Why is there no advice here to say that if TVL arrive, tell them to go away? They have no right of entry, and it's risky to let TVL in, even if you are fully legal, because they might decide that, for example, because your TV has channels tuned in (but no aerial connection), then you must be breaking the law.
Don't let them in.
" If you do need a licence, you'll need to pay the full licence fee, "
Yes I believe this is what normally happens in this case, they will tell you to buy a licence, if you do so immediately then you are done. If not, then
"and you could risk prosecution plus a fine of up to £1,000."
Ok, but people aren't getting fined £1000 in fact.
Here's an article about this: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/24/in-court-non-payment-tv-licence-television-desperate-cases
And another
http://bailiffadviceonline.co.uk/index/magistrate-court-fines/tv-licensing-and-court-fines
It looks like court costs of £120 (often waived), plus fines of £50-£250. For those on reduced incomes, as seems to be the bulk of the cases, non-payment and possible prosecution after several years looks to be much cheaper than lawfully paying your licence. But I wouldn't recommend that....
"Yes, you don't need a licence so long as you are not watching live TV and are only watching on-demand or catch-up. However, TV Licensing says its figures show less than 2% of people only watch catch-up TV - so don't cancel your licence unless you are absolutely sure you don't need it."
Um, why are you quoting TV Licensing figures? If people NEVER watch live TV, they don't need a licence, that's all there is to say. The 2% is irrelevant.
"If I have a smart TV and only watch on catch-up do I need a licence?
Technically no, but proving it will be nightmarish, especially if your TV is connected to an aerial or satellite dish and is capable of receiving a signal. So you may find yourself in a tricky situation."
A smart TV is (generally) one with internet connectivity. You just don't connect it to an aerial, you use the internet instead. It's not tricky at all, especially as you don't need to allow TV licencing to enter your house.
"Watching 'live TV' without a licence is against the law. TV Licensing has enforcement officers that carry out checks. "
You still don't need to let them in.
"You can save £96.50/year by only watching telly in black & white."
Seriously? You warn people that 'only 2% of people are only watching catch-up', but then suggest that people watch in black & white to save money? In 2015, which is more likely - people only watching Netflix, downloads, Iplayer, and all the other services which mean that live TV is completely irrelevant with the possible exception of sporting events (if you have an interest) which you can watch down the pub, or watching TV in black & white???
"It's database of more than 31 million addresses is the main tool for catching evaders."
'Its database'
And it's not a special TV-licensing database, anyone can buy a list of households. And it doesn't catch evaders, all it does is give them a list of households without TV licences, which is all they care about, as their job is to sell licences.
"If TV Licensing believes you're watching 'live TV' without a licence, enquiry officers may visit. "
As you've already noted, they believe EVERYONE is watching live TV, so if you haven't got a licence, chances are they will visit. 'Please go away' is a good answer.
"They can't enter your home without permission, but can apply for a search warrant to do so."
Yes they could, but they need some evidence to get one, not just their usual 'You don't have a licence, you must be breaking the law'
And how many search warrants do they apply for each year?
"They may also use detection equipment such as vans and hi-tech handheld detectors. "
Yeah right, why are there no records of this equipment ever being used in court?
"However, TV Licensing won't go into exactly how its detection methods work. "We would not want to reveal information useful to potential evaders," it says."
Yeah it's pretty simple actually, if you don't have a licence, you are on their list. They will send you threatening letters telling you to buy a licence, and they might send a salesman (aka enforcement officer) round. He will probably peek through your window before knocking on the door, and if you are watching live TV he will note it down. When you answer the door, he will then try and get you to admit to watching TV. In the past they used to try and do trick questions like 'I'm selling TVs', to which you might say 'Already got one, not interested', but now that no longer works, so they will probably just ask you about watching TV. You don't need to answer any questions - why speak to salesmen?
"Digital boxes, including Freeview, Sky, Virgin and BT Vision"
You can use a digibox without a licence, providing it is only setup to produce sound, and not pictures. So for example, you could connect a Freeview box to a hifi amplifier and use it for digital radio (but you can't use it to connect to a TV), or for music TV channels.
"If you're paying to watch a programme and are watching it at the same time as everyone else who's paying to watch it, then you will need a licence - regardless of the fact that you've already paid to watch it."
No, this is not accurate.
The critical part is that it must be a TELEVISION programme (where a television programme is a programme broadcast on television, anywhere in the world)
If I pay to watch an online-only live streaming broadcast, then no licence is required.
"For example, if you buy the movie The Hobbit on Sky Movies Store which is being shown at 8pm, you will need a licence."
Do they even still do this (as opposed to on demand movies)? And surely to buy that movie you'd need a Sky subscription in the first place, which would require a licence?0 -
I disagree with Point #22.
Watching foreign TV in the UK does require a licence.
And this doesn't go well with Point #1.
If you watch or record shows as they're being shown on telly in the UK ('live TV'), you need to be covered by a TV licence.
I looked at everywhere on http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/ no statement confirm this.
According to this if I'm watching US Fox News; I'm liable to pay for TV Licence.0 -
According to this if I'm watching US Fox News; I'm liable to pay for TV Licence.
Yes, yes you are. Defined here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/21/section/405
It's not specific to UK programmes0 -
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I just wondered why a deaf person should pay for a full licence when a lot of programmes do not have subtitles and like the visually impaired deafness is an impairment/disability. I myself miss countless programmes as I'm unable to watch it if there's no subtitles yet I'm paying for a yearly licence it seems grossly unfair.0
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There are always going to be unfair parts to it. Visual impairment is categorized at different levels, with some getting and some not, and I guess they'd have to do the same with hearing problems but can't agree at what level (would my Dad qualify because he needs 2 hearing aids to be able to pick up on everything?). But I do sympathise with you, and do agree that this does seem wrong (they all have sound, so a visually impaired person can listen to them all - even if they don't have the additional I believe is sometimes available to describe scenes).I just wondered why a deaf person should pay for a full licence when a lot of programmes do not have subtitles and like the visually impaired deafness is an impairment/disability. I myself miss countless programmes as I'm unable to watch it if there's no subtitles yet I'm paying for a yearly licence it seems grossly unfair.
My other thoughts to unfairness would run along the lines of why is the licence totally free just because one person in the household has a visual impairment or is 75 or over? Why isn't it calculated as a partial rebate dependant on the number of people in the house? It seems almost as wrong to me that a large household gets away with paying nothing because one person qualifies for free, but a household of 1 has to pay the full amount (not even a 25% reduction on offer as there is with CT).Cheryl0 -
You may be wrong about them getting it wrong.I thought it was terrible analysis, and wrong in many parts.
This has gone round and round, several times to my knowledge over the past few years. TVL are currently saying:"If you watch or record shows as they're being shown on telly in the UK "
Actually, you must not watch or record shows as they are broadcast on television ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. It's not specific to the UK.
Which to me boils down to: you cannot watch or record TV broadcasts, where a broadcast is defined as something broadcast to the UK/CI using terrestrial, satellite, cable or an internet facsimile thereof to everyone at the same time, whether requiring payment or not.Watching TV on the internet
You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the Channel Islands.
You are allowed all pre-recorded material, on-demand video and programmes streamed from outside the UK/CI.
There's no process for not buying a new annual licence, true. However, if you are on one of the instalment schemes, you do need to formally cancel the arrangement. There are reports of TVL assigning accounts to debt collectors when instalments are in default (yes... I know)."How can I cancel? If you're absolutely sure you no longer need a TV licence, you must formally let TV Licensing know."
This isn't true. If you don't need a licence, stop paying, it's not a formal process.
Neutral parties like MSE are in a tricky situation with things like this. It would be nice if they did the legwork and reported a complete set of legal rights. But the reality is they don't have the resources to do that, and BBC/TVL have plenty of legal and PR people who are more than capable of making a nuisance of themselves.Why is there no advice here to say that if TVL arrive, tell them to go away? They have no right of entry, and it's risky to let TVL in, even if you are fully legal, because they might decide that, for example, because your TV has channels tuned in (but no aerial connection), then you must be breaking the law.
The current legally licence free households figure is 1.6m, which sounds somewhat more impressive than 2% (because it is). It's also probably an underestimate, because it is based on people declaring to TVL that they don't need a licence, which I for one have never done."Yes, you don't need a licence so long as you are not watching live TV and are only watching on-demand or catch-up. However, TV Licensing says its figures show less than 2% of people only watch catch-up TV - so don't cancel your licence unless you are absolutely sure you don't need it."
I haven't had a visit over a period of many years of being LLF. It's likely that there are around 300-400 TVL doorsteppers, and 1.6m LLF households, plus another "5-6%" evaders (perhaps 1.5m). The chances of getting a visit are not particularly high based on those figures. However it seems likely that they concentrate on some areas more than others.... so if you haven't got a licence, chances are they will visit...
As you say, you can ignore them, anyway.
Nope. A Sky subscription does not require a licence, as such, though Sky is not a useful platform for being LLF....a Sky subscription in the first place, which would require a licence?0
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