Complaint AA Breakdown Renewal without notification

Fair_Play_2

Yep, another mug here who has been screwed over by the AA! It's upset me so much that I've finally caved in and joined this forum. (Hello everyone!)

I've been with the AA for Breakdown Cover for over a decade and have always paid for it at my local Post Office. About six weeks before the expiry date of my current policy, the AA send me my renewal documents, clearly stating the price of each component previously taken ("Roadside", "Relay" and "Home Start"), followed by the total amount I need to pay. Attached to this is a paying-in slip (known as a 'Giro Credit Slip'), which I detach and take to my Post Office with the payment (usually in the form of a cheque, as that is what I prefer - although the Post Office will also accept cash, postal order and credit/debit card). The Post Office takes the amount and then pays the AA on my behalf. I then get my membership card in the post a couple of weeks later, with a generic covering letter (electronically "signed" by their chief executive, Andrew Strong) thanking me for staying with the AA. This annual ritual has become second-nature to me and I am very happy with the arrangement. I have never asked the AA to change it.

This year, however, they've decided to do things differently... Instead of sending my renewal letter as usual, they've sent me a new membership card! The generic accompanying letter from Mr. Strong is curt and simply says:

"Your new membership card is enclosed. Please check that the details shown on your card in the box on the right are correct - if not, please contact us on 0800 435 980.

May I take this opportunity to thank you for being an AA Member, and I look forward to providing you with the peace of mind AA Membership brings."

"Roadside", "Relay" and "Home Start" are all listed as usual, but NO PRICE is quoted anywhere in the document. It just says:

Roadside - Taken
Relay - Taken
Home Start - Taken

As I have not yet paid a penny, I have "taken" nothing from the AA... So what's going on? Having read the comments in this thread, as well as elsewhere on the internet and in the wider media, I suspect that I am about to become yet another unwitting victim of the AA's sneaky, half-secretive "automatic renewal" policy... As soon as I received this unwelcome letter and membership card, I rushed to my bank to get a mini-statement. Fortunately, no money has been taken by them... yet. But I am almost certain that, unless I contact them, they WILL take the money from my bank account - without even telling me beforehand how much they will take! But how can they do this, when I've never given them my debit card number?

Well, dear readers, I'm afraid I did give it to them last year, but NOT in relation to my breakdown cover... In November I switched my car insurance to the AA after being quoted an extortionate amount by Aviva. They offered me an excellent quote, which I accepted. I told the girl on the telephone to send me the quote with a Giro slip, and I would pay right away. After conferring with a colleague, she told me that a £10 surcharge would apply if they did that; in other words, I would pay less if I purchased the policy pronto on the phone. (I later suspected that she was bluffing about the surcharge, and simply wanted to complete the sale so she would get her commission...) Reluctantly, I agreed (despite my instincts telling me not to), and read out my debit card number (minus the 3-digit security code on the back, which wasn't asked for), plus the start and expiry dates. She asked me if I wanted my policy to be renewed automatically after 12 months. I categorically stated "NO", and that was that. Because it was a ONE-OFF payment, I naturally assumed that my bank card details would be deleted from the AA's database once the payment had cleared. Obviously not! Yet there is nothing in their Terms and Conditions to say that these will be retained indefinitely.

So basically, because they now have my debit card number for my car insurance, I can only assume that they have applied it to my breakdown cover as well! I'm very surprised at this, as I had assumed that they are two completely separate accounts (albeit with the same provider). As "AA Breakdown Cover" and "AA Car Insurance" have two separate telephone numbers, I do not think this was an unreasonable assumption for me to make. But whether they have my bank details or not is irrelevant here: the bottom line is, I have NEVER asked them to put me on an "auto-renewing" contract for my car insurance, LET ALONE my breakdown cover, and I am extremely angry and upset that they appear to have done it without my permission or even knowledge! How on earth can this be ethical or morally justifiable? It is FRAUD, pure and simple.

I shall be telephoning them tomorrow to complain and find out what the hell they think they're playing at. It's disgraceful that a customer's wishes can be ignored in this way, but that's obviously why they prefer us to buy their policies over the phone; because there's no proof of payment terms, and no signature is required from the customer, they can do what the hell they like with our money and get away with it, because we have nothing with which to back up any complaints - no tangible evidence or comeback of any kind. In other words: it's OUR word against THEIRS. Even if recordings of telephone calls ARE made, I doubt they are kept for long enough to be called up as evidence.

On the other hand, when I renew my AA membership by cheque at the Post Office I have no fewer than FIVE proofs of payment: the cheque, the cheque stub (which the Post Office cashier will stamp for me if I ask her to), the Giro slip, the Post Office's printed till receipt, complete with transaction number (which the cashier helpfully staples to my renewal document as a matter of routine) and, eventually, my bank statement. Three of those papers remain in MY possession, and I can also take a photocopy of the cheque and the Giro slip before submitting them at the Post Office. With an electronic payment, however, the only "receipt" is my bank statement, as the AA do not issue receipts unless you ask for one (and even then they have the nerve to charge you £15 for the privilege!). No wonder some companies are now only accepting card and direct debit payments; it puts THEM in control of our money, not US. Disgusting. Utterly disgusting. It seems that honesty and integrity are now completely non-existent in this selfish country of ours. I despair, I really do.

As I said, I've been a loyal AA customer for 11 years and have no intention of leaving them (although this dirty trick they're playing on me is making me reconsider). Yet my loyalty clearly counts for nothing. The bottom line is, they don't trust me to renew my membership of my own accord and, given the slightest opportunity, will do it for me - whether I have agreed to it or not. This is CLEARLY in breach of their Terms and Conditions, which state that they will only "auto-renew" if: "the payer has agreed to allow us to collect the renewal premium automatically each year" (I'm not allowed to post the link as I'm a new member to this forum, but it's on their website). This is confirmed right here by "The AA Company Representative", who writes above: "We are only able to collect a continuous credit payment from a customer's credit card account where we have received prior agreement."

As I have agreed to no such thing (and in any case, my bank card is a DEBIT card, not a credit card), I really don't see how they can do this. Nor have I received the "confirmation documentation" to which "The AA Company Representative" alludes above. The only paperwork I have received from them (described above) is vague and incomplete - and I swear to God that is the truth. However, prevention is the best cure as they say. By nipping this nonsense in the bud NOW, I can probably save myself even more hassle later on - not to mention a penalty charge for demanding a refund (if an unauthorised payment is indeed taken).

When I telephone them tomorrow I shall advise the staff member that the the call is being recorded for "quality and monitoring purposes". (And no, I won't be bluffing.) Wish me luck!!!

Veryannoyed_3

Good luck to you Fair Play, do report back how you get on.

It's now 12 days since the AA promised to put part of this money ie £34 back in my bank account and so far - no joy. However, I am sticking out for the full amount and will be using the county court if I don't get it, based on the "proof" they sent me last week in which they said they couldn't automatically renew my cover because my credit card was no longer valid.

From what you say, I presume the way they took this money from my bank account was because I had previously given my bank debit card number in connection with some previous unrelated transaction with them and they must have trawled their accounts files where they still had it stored.

If I find that is the case I will also be contacting the information commissioner to ask whether it's acceptable for firms to debit from any other customer bank account if they can't get the money from the designated source. I will also check out whether they can hold bank account details indefinitely when customers no longer have house / motor insurance or whatever it was they bought with that debit card.

Fair_Play_2

Thanks for the support, Veryannoyed. I hope you get the full refund to which you're clearly entitled.

As it happens, I didn't get round to phoning them yesterday as I was very busy. But it's just as well that I didn't, because guess what? This morning I've had another mailing from the AA (dated 16th September - ten days after the last one). This time, however, they've sent me my "proper" renewal documentation - with all the price details present and correct, AND the Giro slip for making payment! That's thrown a spanner in the works!!! I feel slightly reassured now, but I'm still worried that if I renew in the usual way they might later take a payment from my bank account anyway, based on the first (erroneous) document that they sent... So I probably ought to phone them anyway (recording the call, of course, to cover myself), just to make sure that doesn't happen. Though even if it does, I should have no trouble claiming a full refund without charge, as even the AA would find it difficult to justify my needing two lots of Breakdown Cover!! All the payment paperwork I mentioned in my first posting would definitely back me up there.

I suspect that what happened initially is that, for some reason, somebody working in Car Insurance hit the button that sends out my Breakdown Cover documents. Because I paid for my Car Insurance on a debit card, the Breakdown "renewal" document was processed accordingly. I guess that's always a risk when you hold two separate policies with the same provider - especially if that provider is a large company like the AA. The left hand never knows what the right hand is doing!!!

The irony is, I half expected my Car Insurance to be put on auto-renew without my permission, having recently read disturbing reports such as "AA Payments System is Criticised" on the BBC News website. I therefore drafted a letter to them earlier this month, warning them not to do this when my Car Insurance expires in December - but I haven't got round to sending it yet as I've been away on holiday. I was in no hurry to send the letter, as it simply never occured to me that they they might try it on with my Breakdown Cover as well... You live and learn!!!

wealdroam

Fair Play, have you any evidence at all that the AA were planning to take you breakdown subscription via your debit card?

Or is that just an assumption?

Veryannoyed_3

Fair_Play wrote: »

Thanks for the support, Veryannoyed. I hope you get the full refund to which you're clearly entitled.


The irony is, I half expected my Car Insurance to be put on auto-renew without my permission, having recently read disturbing reports such as "AA Payments System is Criticised" on the BBC News website.

Thanks for this info Fair Play, I have looked at the BBC news website and this is EXACTLY what has happened to me so there is no reason why I should be treated any differently when other people have received a full refund.

I've seen that sometimes an AA representative posts in this thread. Perhaps he / she could post publicly what they are going to do not only to sort out this debacle for us but what they intend to do to stop it happening in future?

I have already complained to the AA (money still not back in my account) and also to my bank and my next step is to send my documents to trading standards. If this is a country-wide problem then TS may be able to stop it.

Fair_Play_2

wealdroam wrote: »

Fair Play, have you any evidence at all that the AA were planning to take you breakdown subscription via your debit card?

Or is that just an assumption?

An assumption, yes, but a reasonable one, I think - given how notorious the AA seem to be for doing this. Google "AA membership renewal was a rocky road" and "AA continuous payments trap" (the latter takes you to the relevant edition of Radio 4's 'Moneybox Live' programme, which you can still listen to).

I'll call them to try and find out why I was sent two conflicting sets of renewal documents. I would imagine that somebody later realised the mistake and then sent out the correct one. The latter document (dated 16th September) would surely take precedence over the former (6th September), but I will also try to get them to verify this.

As I said: prevention is the best cure.

Veryannoyed_3

The AA has now refunded me £34.50 so I am going to email their chief executive whose address has helpfully been posted in this thread, pointing out that I have documentary evidence provided by the AA to the effect that they could not automatically renew my membership as my credit card was invalid and that therefore they had no right to take this money from a debit card, details of which they must have held for some other reason.

I'll report back how I get on.

Fair_Play_2

Veryannoyed wrote: »

The AA has now refunded me £34.50 so I am going to email their chief executive whose address has helpfully been posted in this thread, pointing out that I have documentary evidence provided by the AA to the effect that they could not automatically renew my membership as my credit card was invalid and that therefore they had no right to take this money from a debit card, details of which they must have held for some other reason.

I don't understand... you paid for your 'stop-gap' AA Breakdown Cover using a credit card, but they auto-renewed it using your debit card? How could they have your debit card number unless you gave it to them at some time or other? Surely you must remember if you gave it to them or not?

Incidentally, if you listen to the Moneybox programme you will hear that Sue Beeson of the AA (whoever she is) completely ignores the question of how long they keep card details after cancellation - and the weak as water presenter lets her get away with it!!! Rather tellingly, however, she says that members who cancel can opt to have their membership "suspended" instead, in case they decide to reactivate it once the cover that comes with their new car has expired. (That isn't in the Terms and Conditions!) She admitted that one of the members who complained to the programme had had his cover "suspended" by mistake. I imagine the same thing has happened to you!

It seems that the AA find it very difficult to take "no" for an answer...

chris1973

I'm currently locking horns with the AA at the moment in relation to an unauthorised renewal and also getting a refund off them, which is actually like trying to extract red stuff from rock matter, and this is refund is all still pending despite actually getting a letter from them, promising me a refund.

The first I knew of the renewal was when £127.00 was taken from my Bank Account when I checked the account balance a few days later. I traced this transaction to 'AA Breakdown', despite having no renewal letter or indeed any correspondence from them in the weeks / months leading up to the transaction.

I immediately wrote to them to inform them, that this payment was taken without any prior notification or consultation with me, in either the form of a renewal letter / quote or even the courtesy of a 'We will be taking £xxx from your account on......' letter before they actually took the money out of my account!. I'm not sure how any company with any common sense can expect their customers to make an informed decision on whether to continue their membership with them or to 'shop around' when they haven't bothered to inform the customer on exactly how much their renewal will actually be or convey forward the information required to give them the option to cancel if they chose to do so. I was also very clear and concise on my complaint letter to the AA, demanding that they cancel the membership renewal immediately and make a full refund.

Today (21st Sept) I get a letter in reply from the AA (dated 15th September), apologising for 'errors' that they have made. Apparently a letter was sent out to me prior to the renewal date, informing me that they no longer had my payment details on file and so they would not be able to renew my membership automatically, and so if I did CHOOSE to renew for another year, then I assume I should get in touch with them in order to give them the payment details.

I still maintain , that I never received ANY letter(s) from the AA in relation to my membership renewal, but it seems that if I had have done, then the content of the letter they said that they sent to me, would have actually informed me that my membership would not be automatically renewed because they no longer had continuous payment authority in the form of payment details on file. Of course, If I had have received this letter, I wouldn't have got in touch to give them the payment information in any case, assuming that any renewal / membership would be cancelled upon the natural expiry of the current policy.

Yet it appears that even if I had received this letter, the content it gave would be incorrect as I would still have been charged for the renewal, and my membership would have been renewed for another year (regardless of the information they said that the letter gave to the contrary), and the renewal was carried out by using exactly the same payment details that they supposedly wrote and told me that they no longer had on file!.

The letter from them also went on to say that I should contact them on the following number if I wished to cancel and they would refund the membership in full. I have phoned the number, and have spent most of the time on hold (no doubt overloaded with all of the other annoyed customers wishing to complain / cancel), apart from once when I was put through to 'the correct department' where upon the call was connected and then immediately went dead!. I guess this is the 'p*ss off the customer department'.

Their letter also ended, cheekily thanking me for renewing with them for a further 12 months!!!. Talk about putting the boot in!.

I'm also not sure why they require me to contact them by telephone to cancel, when my original complaint letter very clearly stated, more than once, that I wanted to cancel and obtain a refund. The same letter also gave them my address, membership number etc and all of the information needed to identify my membership and cancel it. They have clearly taken payment, so those same details can now be used to refund it, or they can send me a cheque. I guess the invition to ring them in order to go through what i've already told them to do in no uncertain terms, is just to delay any refund further and drag it out and indeed inconvenience the customer as much as possible in the hope they'll get ground down and just sod off, well, they chose the wrong person.

I've worked in a professional purchasing position for over 17 years, and in that time i've dealt with thousands of companies, big and small from all over the world, but I have to say that I award the AA, the accolade of being the worst company i've ever had the misfortune to deal with during this time, in fact they represent the very pinnacle with everything that is wrong with customer services in this Country.

Customers should not have to run the gauntlet with jumping through hoops to get a refund, especially when the company in question has already admitted to making mistakes and written to them to inform them that they are entitled to a refund because of those mistakes!, Refunding payment when things go wrong, should be virtually instant, and done with exactly the same speed and courtesy in which the customer is expected to pay the company whenever a payment is due to them!.

In respect of my own personal dealings with the 'AA', and in my own personal opinion of how badly my own complaint and refund is currently being dealt with, I can advise that if you ever find yourself considering AA membership that you run quickly in the other direction and find somebody....ANYBODY else to give your business too, because however bad they turn out to be, they surely can't be as bad as the 'AA'

In the meantime, I promised the 'AA' in my letter, that if the refund was not made, then I would seek to officially complain about them to the relevant third parties and also seek a full refund through all other available channels, and I now fully intend to keep this promise.

Veryannoyed_3

Fair_Play wrote: »

I don't understand... you paid for your 'stop-gap' AA Breakdown Cover using a credit card, but they auto-renewed it using your debit card? How could they have your debit card number unless you gave it to them at some time or other? Surely you must remember if you gave it to them or not?

Incidentally, if you listen to the Moneybox programme you will hear that Sue Beeson of the AA (whoever she is) completely ignores the question of how long they keep card details after cancellation - and the weak as water presenter lets her get away with it!!! Rather tellingly, however, she says that members who cancel can opt to have their membership "suspended" instead, in case they decide to reactivate it once the cover that comes with their new car has expired. (That isn't in the Terms and Conditions!) She admitted that one of the members who complained to the programme had had his cover "suspended" by mistake. I imagine the same thing has happened to you!

It seems that the AA find it very difficult to take "no" for an answer...

Fair Play, my breakdown cover hasn't been suspended, the AA acknowledged in a letter to me that it could not be renewed due to them not being able to get funds from my cancelled credit card. So according to the info the AA sent me in response to my complaint the cover had ended and if I wanted to renew it the onus was on me to contact them with a new card number. I didn't receive this letter from them and certainly didn't phone them to renew it.

However, at some time in the past I must have bought either breakdown, travel, home or some other insurance from the AA and used my bank debit card and the AA still had those details on file and just helped themselves from my bank account. If I did so then it must have been many years ago because I don't remember it and I certainly would never have given permission for them to either keep my account details on file or to take money from my account without my express permission.

I am extremely angry and contacting their CEO by email tonight to ask for my admin fee back and an assurance that they have removed all my details and bank account numbers from the AA system and any other organisation with which they are linked.