How can people be so greedy?

Addy1

ringo_24601 wrote: »

You should have been a GP! They get paid 100k a lot quicker than consultants.

btw, my oh is a senior staff nurse and gets just under 30k, which is pretty reasonable since she's only been doing it 2 1/2 years. She's only got 1 GCSE but managed to get into uni for nursing. She's not academic, but she's a bloody good nurse.

Addy1 - don't worry, you'll hardly be poor as a doctor for those 18 years.

But I don't want to be a GP!

I am not exactly going to be rich either. I will start on 20k which if your OH has been nursing for 2.5 years, then we are prob about the same age and I will be earning a lot less than her when I start in August. I don't understand why people are sympathetic to nurses and not doctors

I am not saying nurses deserve less money (they do an excellent job and definately deserve a pay rise in my opinion!) but the amount of training we have far exceeds nursing training and the costs incured are huge when nurses get fees paid AND a bursary.

I am not asking for a bursary, but when the NHS has the monopoly on us when we qualify, the least they could do is pay our tuition fees.

It is a shame really to force a motivated workforce into horrific debts, then limit the company they can work for to 1, then make them work terrible hours with no chance of overtime. I love medicine and wouldn't want to do anything else but they take advantage of this and realise that they can treat us like poo and we won't leave.

Even nurses and physios etc can work in the private sector, no private work for junior doctors!

Addy1

aztec21 wrote: »

Maybe you won't earn over 100k a year but your earnings should enable you to pay your student loan back with relative ease.

That is more than can be said for a lot of graduates.

My earnings will be less than the average wage.

[Deleted User]

From http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=553

Junior doctors

Junior doctors earn a basic salary and will usually be paid a supplement. This supplement is based on the extra hours worked above a standard working week and the intensity of the work. The most common banding supplement is 50% of basic salary. In the most junior hospital doctor post (foundation year 1) a doctor on a 50% supplement would earn £32,087. This increases in the second year (foundation year 2) to £39,798. A doctor in specialist training on a 50% supplement could earn from £43,000 to £67,000.

Yes, and within a very short period, you will be earning considerably more than her

Addy1

Funny what they don't tell you is they have stripped the banding away because of EWTD.

I will receive no banding whatsoever, and cannot claim overtime.

That is how they trick people in to starting medicine.

Addy1

If I had left school at 16 and worked , I would have earned over 100k would be 18k less in debt and would have paid 7k less tuition fees.

I make that a saving of 124k.

The NHS needs to seriously consider what it is doing to the morale of young doctors.

carolt

laughing cow, agreed, as I said above, not everyone who goes to university takes full advantage of the experience. Obviously, not everyone has the perfect university experience; some waste the opportunity given to them, because they chose the wrong course/university for them, were too immature etc etc But they can always return to education at a later age.

That does not mean it's not an experience well worth having. I've worked with plenty of incompetent people of every level of education - education or lack of does not guarantee competence.

But my point was not that better educated workers were better workers; they might be (I believe international data would suggest they are) but then again they might not be.

You've kind of missed the point of what I was trying to say. Not that education would benefit their companies, or the wider economy (though arguably these may be true) but that education could benefit THEM.

Not their earning power, or the size of their house, or even their competence at work (though these could all be true); but contribute to the quality of their life, an education in its broadest sense.

Andy_Hamilton

My old company used to take on 200 apprentices per year. Because the drop out rate was quite high it was seen as one of the best qualifications to have if you could complete. Because I have the company name on my CV I have been offered 2 jobs without an interview!

During my apprenticeship we had one "engineer" who physically would not do any work that she could not be assessed on! Machines could be down, nothing going out the door and she would be there looking for extra ticks at her assessments, the attitude stunk!
At the same time I was offered a full time job (8 months before finishing my placements), my boss "fired her" out of his department after 2 painful months and was told she would never ever get back working for him. By the time she finished her apprenticeship 1 year early she knew how to get qualified but nothing else (even became apprentice of the year for working hard). The company decided not to keep on this person as she was demanding the full wage 1 year early so she left with virtually no experience.

She went on to TV for one show as an expert but she fell flat on her face on the first task!!! It was funny.

Hard work gets you further than a bit of paper…
Unless it the lotto ticket.

Addy1

ha ha I would love to turn up on my first day at work and say to my patients

"it's ok I don't have a medical qualification at all, however I do work really hard......"

I agree with your sentiment but I think that a case by case basis is needed when discussing whether degrees are worth it.

Pez2

Phirefly wrote: »

Earlier, I considered you to be an articulate individual who had some valid views that simply diverged from my own in places.

Now I just completely disagree. In fact I'm offended.

I flatly REFUSE to take any responsibility for the causes the problems you cite in your post. And I don't see that its my place to sort them out.

I'm financially self-reliant, I do local volunteer work, through my business, I am giving opportunities for paid freelance employment to design students. Plus I'm sure a couple of members of this site would vouch for the fact that I go out of my way to help people where I can. yesterday I took time out of my working day to help a complete stranger I met through the site apply for work experience.

Thats my contribution and you can jog on if you think I'm going to do any more. I don't have time. I didn't vote in any of these monkeys. I don't neglect my family or my community and I'm certainly not obsessed with consumerism, and if someone else is, then its not MY fault.

And to Blue Monkey - I completely sympathise. I know its not easy. Round here I'm made to feel like a leper for buying my house at a peak, but had I not, I wouldn't have a secure base for my business. I wish you every future success.

I'm not sure why you would assume my post was specifically directed towards you. I did say that I meant 'we' in a generalised sense, as in 'we the people of this country'. Within that 'we' there is plenty of variation from person to person. If you're doing voluntary work and providing employment and generally helping people where you can, then good for you. If all the energy that was currently devoted to building up property portfolios and generally feathering our owns beds was instead going into helping others we'd be a lot better off as a country.

Phirefly

GavP wrote: »

I'm not sure why you would assume my post was specifically directed towards you. I did say that I meant 'we' in a generalised sense, as in 'we the people of this country'.

I knew you were going to say that. I am a person of this country, hence it was directed at me. And everyone else. I abhor generalisations.

We just have a fundamental difference of opinion on how best to improve the state of the nation. But at least we're both knowledgable, keen to see improvement and prepared to engage in debate as to how best to acheive this. Lets agree to disagree.