How can people be so greedy?

mitchaa

ringo_24601 wrote: »

I must tell my little brother who's doing a doctorate in Clinical Psychology that he's doing a worthless course

I did say bog standard degree and yes a bog standard degree in Psychology is pretty much worthless. My sister has a degree in child psychology and couldn't get a job for around 2 years afterwards. When she did finally land a job relating to her degree, she was on a salary of only £18k. She keeps saying to me why did she bother.

A doctorate is obviously very advanced and a lot more than a 'bog standard' 3 year degree.

I never said all degrees were worthless, but a good proportion of them are

aztec21

As Ringo says money earned is not the only way of valuing ones education. People seem to forget that in this thread.

carolt

I truly believe that the value of education goes far beyond adding up how much more (or less) you will earn if you do a degree. University education should (not saying it always does, for those who choose unwisely, or fail to apply themselves and take advantage of what is being offered to them) provide an education in the broadest sense - the opportunity to learn not just about the minutiae of your degree subject but how to think, how to study, what you are capable of intellectually and expand not only your mind, but your understanding of life. Lessons about mixing with people from a range of different backgrounds, in a different location, living away from home, budgeting etc etc etc.

It's truly sad to think that more than 15 years after Thatcher left, there are still people who can only see education with the £ sign above it. It's not as if taxpayers are even footing the bill for it anymore.

I would always advise anyone to take up the chance of education, if they can. I was lucky, in being one of the last to get a totally free university education (and a grant); my children will not be so fortunate.

In my case, my father came here as a refugee and had no opportunity to get an education. He eventually became a lawyer, by doing unpaid articles for 6 years, whilst my mother supported him, and studying at night school (with 3 young kids at the time too). Obviously, to be a lawyer now, you'd need a degree.... He would have loved the opportunity to study more than anything else. Now, at nearly 86, he still regularly attends lectures and has a wide range of intellectual interests, but due to political events outside his control, was never able to go to university.

If I've learnt anything from this, it's that education is a wonderful blessing. Yes, it may come with a price, but those who quantify it only in terms of how many more thousands they are or could be earning, are sadly missing the point.

For me, if it had to be education or owning my own property, I'd take the education every time.. But of course, that is a false dichotomy; the bizarre heights of the housing market in recent years may have convinced some that it has to be one or the other, but of course, long-term, this is nonsense, and the extent to which it is nonsense will become apparent soon, as prices shift back in line with historical averages.

laughing_cow

neas wrote: »

Technically i could've got a mortgage for 200k on a 3 bedroom house... I'd be massively in debt though.. and probably paying 50-60% of my total outgoings just to the mortgage maybe more...

So Nearly anyone.. can buy a house... but its the financial decision to take that leap.. I wrote of my frustration of how it seems my parents generation had it easier, how now houses are worth 2x the amount they were for my parents... in real terms... And that even me in a relatively comfortable position worries about mortgages and getting on the housing ladder..

I think someone else has already mentioned that every generation has it's pros and cons. My parents bought their first home in their early 20s,back in the early 70s. Just like today's kids, they had to borrow the deposit (all of it) from my grandparents. They didn't have luxuries like holidays or even a telephone and they did extra work, whereas today many people expect to have a comfortable lifestyle and a new home - that's just not always possible when you're first starting out.

I didn't buy my first home until I was 30, and it was a wreck of a one bed flat that needed total renovation and a hefty mortgage. I've got a good job (I'm in the higher tax bracket), but nearly 9 years later I'm still living there. I live in inner London and I accept that it's expensive - if I want a 2 bed place I will have to cut down on my expenditure or move further out (3 bed places are in my dreams). I can't have everything that I'd like - that's just life and if I want to move then I will have to compromise or make more money! (Or get a husband ). There's no point moaning about it - it's much better to try and change a situation or just accept it.

neas wrote: »

It was a "What about the rest of them" debate... and i still hold the view that i feel kinda robbed by some of my older generation who I will be paying my pension fund to fund their early retirement in the costa blanca . Which most likely when i reach retirement age will have closed down due to people living too long... and the costs to much for a pension to become realistic.
.

I don't begrudge my parents their pension. Their generation worked harder than many do nowadays - in the past 35 years my dad has worked 7 days a week, has only had one day sick and only occasional holidays. They are quite comfortable now and have a lovely home, but that's because they've grafted and they've made sacrifices that most of us younger folk wouldn't remotely consider.

neas wrote: »

And finally what about those kids earning 13k at tesco... will they be in a council house forever or sharing rented accomodation till they are 40?.

I just don't get this idea that everyone is somehow entitled to own a home - it certainly isn't that way in much of Europe. What's wrong with renting and waiting until you can afford it before you buy? And what's wrong with striving to get a better job or making sacrifices to get what you really want?

neas wrote: »

When this house price crash comes the tables will turn and instead of me being shafted it will be those who have been greedy trying to screw me....
........This will be my just rewards ...this is what i learned post posting this thread.

Some of those people "trying to screw" you may simply be people who have been shafted by the government/their employers etc and are looking for a way to prop up their failing pension with BTL. Yes, I wish that house prices weren't quite so high and I didn't have a big mortgage commitment, but I don't wish ill on individuals who are just trying (legally) to get on in life. I think those comments make you sound bitter and I find that sad for someone so young.

cupid_s

I bought my first (and only so far) house with my DH at the age of 21, 4 years ago. I love it and I love the fact that it's mine. But... it is in a rubbish area and the schools in particular are awful. For a similar amount of money monthly we could rent somewhere much bigger in a much nicer area, and now that DH is no longer a student we're selling up so we can rent. Ok we'll be slightly worse off financially but we'll be living in a much bigger house in a much nicer area.

And within a year of moving into our house, which was apparently in almost 'perfect' condition, thousands of pounds worth of work needed doing. Apparently this needed doing before we moved in according to our neighbour but the previous owners didn't give a stuff and the survey picked up none of the faults.

I'm just trying to say I honestly don't know why people moan about not being able to afford a house. It is a financial burden, and can be a massive hassle and for people our age it is often just better renting. If more people had this view and weren't prepared to take out ridiculous loans they can't afford just to get a house then the prices would not have spiralled so high.

StevieJ

PasturesNew wrote: »

You had it free because not so many got the chance of the education.

It was largely reserved for the middle classes and in my day people going to Uni was about 12% and mostly boys.

Now 50% can go and they're all told about Uni.

It is a classic Blair con job, the jobs that graduates are walking into nowadays are the same jobs that school leavers were doing a generation ago (without the loans).
I was simply a dole reduction exercise.

laughing_cow

carolt wrote: »

I truly believe that the value of education goes far beyond adding up how much more (or less) you will earn if you do a degree. University education should (not saying it always does, for those who choose unwisely, or fail to apply themselves and take advantage of what is being offered to them) provide an education in the broadest sense - the opportunity to learn not just about the minutiae of your degree subject but how to think, how to study, what you are capable of intellectually and expand not only your mind, but your understanding of life. Lessons about mixing with people from a range of different backgrounds, in a different location, living away from home, budgeting etc etc etc.

In theory, I agree with some of what you say. The idea of having broad minded and inquisitive people come into the workplace is of course desirable. However, my experience as an interviewer leads me to believe that many young people have not had this kind of university experience. It might be that they've dossed about, or it might be that they're really not bright enough for the rigours of an academic education, or perhaps they've gone to uni simply 'because everyone does'.

I went to uni because I had sod all idea of what to do. I really enjoyed the social aspects of it and made some great friends. Did I learn much? Er, no. I had been very lucky at 6th form and had some amazing and inspirational teachers who really made me think. I then went to a very ordinary (duff!) uni and the teaching was a bit of a letdown after 6th form - I didn't really feel engaged. My degree has made absolutely no difference to my working life so the debt was a bit of a waste. My involvement with the Student Union was the only really useful experience to come from my higher education. As for being independent and budgeting - I'd already experienced this from having part time jobs and a gap year job overseas.

Because of the fees now, there's an increasing number of students who stay in the family home whilst studying - whilst this is sensible financially, it doesn't give them the independence we had. We've had graduates at work who are 25 and have never lived away from home - one kid in our office gets free rent, his laundry done, all his meals, packed lunches and gets woken up with a cup of tea by his mum every morning! He's a lot less mature than the kids who live independently and he struggles to take on responsibility at work.

Addy1

ixwood wrote: »

Cos you'll end up earning over 100k a year maybe? What will nurses get? Some people....

Yet again, someone who agrees with everything he reads in the Daily Mail.

I am NOT going to be a GP therefore will NOT earn over 100k a year.

I will not be a consultant until 18 years after I started medical school, which by my calculations makes our training just a bit long to stay on 20k a year for the rest of our lives.

That also does not help people in my year does it?

[Deleted User]

You should have been a GP! They get paid 100k a lot quicker than consultants.

btw, my oh is a senior staff nurse and gets just under 30k, which is pretty reasonable since she's only been doing it 2 1/2 years. She's only got 1 GCSE but managed to get into uni for nursing. She's not academic, but she's a bloody good nurse.

Addy1 - don't worry, you'll hardly be poor as a doctor for those 18 years.

aztec21

Addy1 wrote: »

Yet again, someone who agrees with everything he reads in the Daily Mail.

I am NOT going to be a GP therefore will NOT earn over 100k a year.

I will not be a consultant until 18 years after I started medical school, which by my calculations makes our training just a bit long to stay on 20k a year for the rest of our lives.

That also does not help people in my year does it?

Maybe you won't earn over 100k a year but your earnings should enable you to pay your student loan back with relative ease.

That is more than can be said for a lot of graduates.