How can people be so greedy?

MissMoneypenny

Badger_Lady wrote: »

MissMoneypenny, I think you're missing my point.

It is pointless people trying to degrade higher education, because they didn't get a degree themselves.

Older people (like your father) may not have had the opportunity to go to university, but there is no excuse now as the opportunity is there for every bright person.

Years ago, you got into good jobs fairly easily if you were bright, but now it is different. A lot of employers will not look at non degree educated people for their higher paid jobs. A good degree from a red brick uni will get you in a good job and these students are targetted by companies, while they are still at uni.

Some bright people may prefer to start their own business instead of completing a degree (Bill Gates and Richard Branson spring to mind.). Some, who don't have a degree, can work their way through the ranks through hard work and luck. Some can do their degree while working, to further their career prospects. Some can try to run their own businesses. Others can earn more eventually, by doing an apprenticeship rather than a degree.

As I have already said, I agree there are many degrees that are not worth the money it cost doing the course and others realy don't stand a chance of getting a good degree.

I'm not sure why you think graduates are behind life in genaral with you comments about what your non degree educated father said about 25 years old graduates still living at home? Don't you realise that from age 18, a student that attends university away from home, has to take control of their life and their finances? They live on a budget, have to organise their time for studies, cook their own meals, have to find a house to rent, pay their rent, pay their utilities. I lived at home until I was 22 and just had to pay a lump sum to my parents each week, with no other worries.

Idiophreak

Badger_Lady wrote: »

4. People who go to University because "it's the done thing", don't know what they want to achieve, and study a subject that has no relevance to any job
- let them pay for it themselves and warn them that they'll struggle on the other side. Some of them become perpetual students, some fall back on lower-paid jobs and some of them do OK, but they've got into debt and haven't shown any career ambition. They've also missed 3 years of useful work experience.

This is a tough one...I understand you're getting at, but what are people in this category supposed to do?

They wake up one day, they're 18, they've not got any "real life" experience, don't really know what they want to do with their life..and that's no fault of their own. Some people are lucky and know what they want to do from an early age, other people take a while to work it out.

So, they have two options: 1) take on some temping, bits and bobs here and there - go to uni once they've worked out what they want. 2) Go to uni, get a degree and hope that you've worked out what you want to do by the end of it.

There's no doubt that related degrees are far preferable for many jobs, but we mustn't forget that doing *a* degree (I'm thinking english, history, geography, psychology etc, not the completely noddy degrees), especially from a good university, still carries a good weight - it still teaches you a lot and you'll still have grown into yourself a lot by the time you leave...and most degrees will be fine for getting you into any "general" grad schemes...

Lotus-eater

On a slightly different subject, I was thinking about this the other day, if you get a huge student loan and then start your own business paying yourself by dividends, do you ever have to actually pay the loan back?

Idiophreak

neas wrote: »

A friend from uni has done two degrees now, aiming to be a teacher so he can get all his student loans removed....

A little OT I know, but do they still do this?

My Mrs started as a NQT last year and I've not heard anything about this - a quick google finds that the loan repayment scheme ended in 2005?

Obv if you know different, it would be good to know

Doom_and_Gloom

I understand about the amazingly high house prices that are around now. I know my parents bought their house for around 80k in 1994 and now it's worth triple if not quadruple that and they've only added a ground floor conservatory and an en-suite to a bedroom to the layout BUT sold half the garden (about 100ft out of just over 200ft) :eek: ! They have updated the place and once the new bathroom is done completely I can see them selling at a great profit if they choose to in around 10 years time.
They do have one other property which they rent out to my sister and her OH as it stands so don't make her pay the full price that they should (she's at university with a part time job and her OH is a graduate but is a supermarket baker so only scrape by due to this).

My dad has worked his sorry little butt off from the day he left school to become an apprentice. He has a solid work ethic and deserves the place he owns and lets out to my sister as well as the one he is still paying off. He's worked in the same job for 3 decades now with probably less than a month over all off ever that wasn't holiday leave. He isn't young and still works hard for his money. I can't have a go at him for the house prices and that he will get a nice pay out at the end when he sells as it would have to be a spectacular dive for my parents to come out worse than when they went in.

My parents have saved money for me for either uni or a deposit on a house. I find it odd that even my parents make it clear you can only have one or the other at a time :rolleyes: but with only around 3k in it after 18 years it doesn't look like much for either one (although I know I'm lucky that they have done this for me and my sister in the first place). With the money though it's a year paid for at university or half of my half of a deposit for a house with my BF hrm let me think :rotfl: . I'm going to choose a house with my BF as I don't want to rent for all of my life as I like the stability of a house that's mine. Also when all is done I'm not paying someone else’s mortgage so they can run off with yet another property, it will be my own place and once it's paid that's a lot of hassle out of the way.

It's going to take my BF and I a long time to save for a decent deposit on a house and I'm working ever harder to get a job as not only would I like one but I NEED one.
I know that My BF and I will have to move probably 100 miles away from where our families are just so we can buy a place when we do with our 12k odd or more deposit when we get it together. We know it will be at least 15 (most likely more) years of paying nearly 1K or more each month to keep a roof over our heads. I for one however see that as enlightening as it will show us what really is NEEDED and what is a LUXURY.

My boyfriend started a degree in jewellery only to have to leave in his second year as his WRITING skills are not up scratch. Odd that I thought he was doing jewellery not english :rolleyes: . He's since been told he wasted his time and should have looked around for someone who needed an apprentice in jewellery. So he wasted nearly 2 years of his life and has a 6K debt due to it :mad: . Other people I know have done a degree NEEDED for the job they wanted to do and not manage to get it as other people WITHOUT the degree snatched it up while they were earning their degree and are more qualified in the job :eek: !
I'm not saying that university is a bad thing as for some people there is no other way what so ever such as GP's, dentists etc. I will probably end up going to uiniversity as I want to become a dietition but for now in my life I'm going to sort out my other affairs before continuing with education .

In the end I'm okay with the idea of working hard and putting my money into a place. Even if it's not perfect it will still prove that all the effort was worth it when the day comes that I own my own place. I'd say that people in my generation in general have slightly less pride than those that proceeded them and that's where it falls. Our predecessors worked damn hard for their lodgings and so should we. Life isn't going to get any easier and we need to show the next generation that they need to work hard to get where they want or live in a substandard way. That's the truth of the matter I think.

Sorry if there is any spelling errors. I can't really spell .

margaretclare

Regarding older people who did/didn't get degrees:

I have a 2:1 Honours in Behavioural Sciences, 1978-81, that was on top of the nursing and midwifery qualification (non-degree-based!) I left grammar school in 1951 aged 16.

The degree did me no good whatsoever as regards career prospects, but it was a fantastic experience, I wouldn't have been without it. Always short on self-esteem and self-confidence, with that degree I 'wouldn't call the King my cousin' as the saying goes.

My DH did an old-fashioned 5 1/2 year apprenticeship in mechanical engineering, which involved working, being paid a small wage, plus attending college for maths etc. He often says it was a way of ensuring cheap labour and that it didn't take him 5 1/2 years to learn his trade. His main career was in engineering sales and management, in fact at one stage he had his own company selling workholding equipment, a UK subsidiary of a German firm.

He wouldn't be able to do any of that now without a degree.

Margaret

Phirefly

neas wrote: »

But to answer phireflys question, why aren't I getting on the property ladder?

That wasn't my question. I was asking why you're so narked about everything when you're evidently in a favourable position.

neas wrote: »

I assesses the housing market in my personal situation and saw the current risk as being quite high as opposed to how my father faired. And with this coming HPC or whatever it is, I believe it is a wise decision.

Seems you've changed your tune a bit. I thought you were having an eggy because

neas wrote: »

It just depresses me somewhat... my parents bought a 2 bedroom as soon as they were married at 20... here i am 24, with 10k student debt from the goverment and renting away with no immediate solution. At this rate i'd guess i'd have enough deposit within 2 more years...

I think it just sucks in general that because of my 'generation' I am worse off in trying to get on the housing market than my parents were. How am I supposed to start a family? I will just have to rent forever.

My Mum and dad are probably of a similar generation to yours, and similarly, while it wasn't easy for them, on reflection, home ownership seems like it was more tangible for them back in the day. Doesn't bother me though. Theres pros and cons to every situation.

I think we've hit the crux of your problem. You're just being impatient. From the looks of your sig though, this 20+ page rant has made you realise that good things come to those who wait.

Which is what I will have to say to my client because I'm spending far too much time procrastinating round here avoiding the brief from hell.

What does Mrs. Neas have to say about all this anyway?

neas

Phirefly wrote: »

That wasn't my question. I was asking why you're so narked about everything when you're evidently in a favourable position.




Seems you've changed your tune a bit. I thought you were having an eggy because



My Mum and dad are probably of a similar generation to yours, and similarly, while it wasn't easy for them, on reflection, home ownership seems like it was more tangible for them back in the day. Doesn't bother me though. Theres pros and cons to every situation.

I think we've hit the crux of your problem. You're just being impatient. From the looks of your sig though, this 20+ page rant has made you realise that good things come to those who wait.

Which is what I will have to say to my client because I'm spending far too much time procrastinating round here avoiding the brief from hell.

What does Mrs. Neas have to say about all this anyway?

Technically i could've got a mortgage for 200k on a 3 bedroom house... I'd be massively in debt though.. and probably paying 50-60% of my total outgoings just to the mortgage maybe more...

So Nearly anyone.. can buy a house... but its the financial decision to take that leap.. I wrote of my frustration of how it seems my parents generation had it easier, how now houses are worth 2x the amount they were for my parents... in real terms... And that even me in a relatively comfortable position worries about mortgages and getting on the housing ladder.


It was a "What about the rest of them" debate... and i still hold the view that i feel kinda robbed by some of my older generation who I will be paying my pension fund to fund their early retirement in the costa blanca . Which most likely when i reach retirement age will have closed down due to people living too long... and the costs to much for a pension to become realistic.

My mum and dads first house cost 2.5x my dads salary... my mum didnt have to work, my dad wasn't uni educated he worked at a foundry and left school at 15... but by he age of 20 he could afford a 3 bedroom house to raise his children in... by the age of 40 they had 1 pound left in the mortgage, they were good at saving.

Even if i save as hard as them... I will not hit 40 mortgage free no way lol .

And finally what about those kids earning 13k at tesco... will they be in a council house forever or sharing rented accomodation till they are 40?

From when i first posted the thread i have realised that an economic change is coming, that not to get worried and to save and prepare for that change. When this house price crash comes the tables will turn and instead of me being shafted it will be those who have been greedy trying to screw me.... If you own your own family home dont have a big mortgage you wont be affected.... if you have 4-10 BTL houses and realise that your properties are dropping by 50 pound a day then you might be a little less off when your servicing the mortgages on an unsellable property....

This will be my just rewards ...this is whati learned post posting this thread.

mitchaa

MissMoneypenny wrote: »

Older people (like your father) may not have had the opportunity to go to university, but there is no excuse now as the opportunity is there for every bright person.

Years ago, you got into good jobs fairly easily if you were bright, but now it is different. A lot of employers will not look at non degree educated people for their higher paid jobs.

You've got to take pros with the cons. I am 25, left school at 16 and went straight into empoyment. I have 8 scottish SG's and 3 scottish highers. English equiv of 8 GCSE's and 3 A levels. (Yes at 16, not 18)

I compare myself to those i went to school with who chose the uni option to see if i made the right choice in life NOT TO go to uni and not 1 of my friends that chose the uni path are earning more than what i do now. Quite a few have worthless degrees (Masters in war history being 1) They have come out of uni with worthless degrees, no prospects, huge student debts and jobs that will pay no more than average salary.

I have 8-9yrs experience in my field, earning £40k+ and out of a handful of around 20 close friends that chose uni, there are only 2 or 3 that are earning more than £25k

Granted a degree in medicine/law that take you onto becoming a GP/Lawyer etc are worth it but bog standard degrees (Psychology/Accountancy etc) are pretty much worthless.

Im in engineering myself, i see a handful of graduates coming through the system now and again and just laugh my socks off when they think they know it all, but yet do not know which way to turn a nut in order to tighten it:rotfl:

I would opt for experience over paper everytime.

I for 1 am glad i never chose the uni path. No way would i be earning £40k+ at 25 now in engineering had i went down the uni route. Same with plumbers/electricians, guys or girls with trades and 8-9yrs experience behind them.

Just a different view point to show Uni and degree are not always the best option

[Deleted User]

Granted a degree in medicine/law that take you onto becoming a GP/Lawyer etc are worth it but bog standard degrees (Psychology/Accountancy etc) are pretty much worthless.

I must tell my little brother who's doing a doctorate in Clinical Psychology that he's doing a worthless course

Is money earned the only way of valuing one's education? In decades to come, i'll still look back on my university days as some of the most enjoyable in my life.

I'm 27, not earning 40k (but give it 6 months and I will be) and a graduate with BSc Genetics and MSc Bioinformatics (ooh, is it a worthless degree or highly useful?)

At 25, I was working with some of the finest minds in science, earning about 22k. Happy as Larry, but sadly decided i needed to jump into the commercial sector if I ever wanted to own a home.