How can people be so greedy?

Lotus-eater

Benefits_Blagger wrote: »

take the poster above you, andy hamilton, look at his signature "mortgage £430 a month, lodger pays £270 of it, life is good"

that is typical of the attitude we have in this country, people having a smugness about the fact other people are paying for them. being on benefits is no different.

like i have said earlier in the thread i have only adopted this attitude myself, because it is what our society has become..

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.html?p=8978767&postcount=10
I thought it was because you were disabled?

People who are smug about the rest of society paying their way so they can sit back on their ar-se and do nothing are the worst.
Andy has invested his money, you are just lazy.

Idiophreak

Stevie1 wrote: »

1. I think you have a basic lack of understanding why and what happened to the housing market in the last 15 years and the 15 years prior to that.

2. You went to Uni. (as did I) to better yourself, other people invested their hard earned cash in property amongst other investments, to better themselves and their life prospects. Yet you resent them for doing what you did!

Have you actually read all the way through this thread?

1) Whether OP has this "lack of understanding" is really neither here nor there. It's not really significant *why* house prices these days are so unaffordable, it's only really significant that they are.

2) I reject outright the idea that many people these days invest their hard earned cash in property rather than going to university...99% of people who leave school at 16 or 18 will not earn enough to buy a house these days. And that is *exactly* the point that the OP is making.

The generations before us, people *could* chose to go to university and try and "better themselves" or, they could skip uni, start work and be relatively assured that a year or two down the line they'd be able to afford to buy a modest house. My parents did this, my aunts and uncles did this etc etc etc.

Now, this "choice" that you seem to perceive doesn't really exist. Young people don't really "chose" to go to uni, they go because they feel they have to. And they go *so* there's a chance they can afford a house in a couple of years.

Also, I just want to reitterate that the OP hasn't at any point (that I've noticed) particularly tried to blame anyone for their situation, just described their frustrations at it - just because of when we were born, we find ourselves with choices much more restricted than previous generations at this time in our lives.

I also find the comments on the housing "cycle" to be interesting.

Average house prices are currently something like 10-12x average wage. I really don't see house prices decreasing by 80% in the next few years, which is the only way they'd return to the 2-3x multiplier our parents enjoyed. So the fact that, if we're lucky, they might drop to 9-11x in the next couple of years...I don't know, I just don't find it *that* reassuring...Again, this is not really anybodys fault (insert rant against BTL, imigration, social housing etc etc here if it'll make anyone feel better) - but it doesn't meen "kids today" don't have a right to whinge occasionally.

Finally, it's also worth noting that this complaint (sorry OP, I'm whinging more than you now ) isn't explicitly just about buying houses, but about the relative skintness of the young population in general.

eg - My dad didn't go to uni. He worked hard, sure, and had a half decent job. He bought a house when he was younger than I am and when my mum had us kids she was able to give up work and my dad's wage was good enough to support us. Now, my girlfriend and I are mid twenties, we have 2 degrees each, we've both got good jobs, that require a postgrad education (in a related subject..)...we're doing everything "right" if you will. We each earn, relatively, more than my dad did when he was our age.

Sure, once the debt's all sebtled, we can afford to buy a place, probably, if we want to. But it will mean at least a 3.5-4x multiple of our *combined* wage...For two of us, this is (hopefully) manageable - but the chances of me being able to support her if we have kids, especially with any interest rate rises...I just can't see it. So there's another choice that was available to our parents generation, but not to us. Again, nobodys fault, just seems unfaaaair

(man, I need to stop writing these)

Davesnave

take the poster above you, andy hamilton, look at his signature "mortgage £430 a month, lodger pays £270 of it, life is good"

that is typical of the attitude we have in this country, people having a smugness about the fact other people are paying for them. being on benefits is no different.

Is it me, or is £270 a month not pretty reasonable?

There is a million miles between what I've read about Mr Hamilton & you, as you present yourself.

margaretclare

neas wrote: »

I'm sure everyone knows at least someone who owns more than 1 house and rents the other(s) out to lesser beings like myself .

I must be an exception, then. I don't personally know anyone like that.

In any case, buying more than one house on a BTL mortgage -whether as 'my pension' or 'my investment' - is NOT the same as owning them. The banks own them. I have no sympathy, or any empathy, with such people.

Margaret

ixwood

I think you're underestimating the skintness of past generations based on how wealthy these people are in middle aged and beyond.

Previous geneartions had it much harder than I did and current youngsters are.

Buying a house was MUCH more difficult than it is now. Most people didn't even dream of buying.

I can only remember my mum and dad actually "going out" a handnful on times in my lieftime.

Benefits_Blagger

Andy_Hamilton wrote: »

Hang on there, I can comfortably afford the house myself through my hard work. It take home just over £2K per month and my mortgage and bills work out under £700

The reason I have a lodger and typing on MSE is because I want to be comfortable for my future. I have a 3 bedroom new house and my lodger is sharing with me until he saves up enough for his own place, he has no ability to buy his own and renting the same standard of home would be over £700 per month. I'm not taking him for a lend and he's not taking me for a lend!!

didnt mean to pick on you andy, as your situation is not a good example of what i was trying to say, it was the signature that got me.

but what i was trying to say, is that there is all these BTL people, who then buy property then get the tenants to pay the mortgage for them, i.e. essentially getting money for nothing just because their financial staus allows them to.

as a country we have been divided into homeowning and non-homeowning class. once you wake up to the reality of where you belong, then its upto you to make the most of it.

ixwood

People seem to expect a hefty salary, foreign holidays, nice cars, expensive schooling, countless gadgets and a nice affordable house these days. Most people have to scrimp at save initially at least, that's how it works!

Badger_Lady

ixwood wrote: »

I can only remember my mum and dad actually "going out" a handful on times in my lifetime.

When my Mum was growing up with her Brother and Sister, the whole family lived in a caravan for some time until they managed to get a council house. My Mum remembers one day in winter when the water pipes burst and the whole floor was sheeted in ice.

That was with my Grandfather working as a carpenter and my Grandmother working as a secretary.

neas

Idiophreak wrote: »

Sure, once the debt's all sebtled, we can afford to buy a place, probably, if we want to. But it will mean at least a 3.5-4x multiple of our *combined* wage...For two of us, this is (hopefully) manageable - but the chances of me being able to support her if we have kids, especially with any interest rate rises...I just can't see it. So there's another choice that was available to our parents generation, but not to us. Again, nobodys fault, just seems unfaaaair

Your in the same boat as me then... I HAD to go to uni to boost my salary by 5-7k.... if i didn't i'd be forever trailing the house prices working at tesco on minimum wage etc. Im glad i did go to uni as I enjoy my job but am generally frustrated that If i cant see its feasible to go the housing market taking into account the general risks associated with it then how can someone on minimum wage?

Its fair enough doing sums saying "With you and your OH salary you could comfortably afford a morthage"

I could afford a morthgage on a fixed incentive rate, taking into account if I dont get ill, require funds to fix problems such as dental or health problems, loose my job, OH gets pregnant and that when we come off the fixed rate deal the interest rates haven't jumped up 2% to bite me in the rear end.

As my job i deal on a day to day basis with the term risk... I'd say that for me personally buying a house at the moment its a Red Risk..

I'd just like to add an anecdotal evidence to this: My friend is on his own owns 27k a year bought a house as soon as he started his job. He is currently on a fixed rate interest only mortgage and is worrying about how he will cope when he comes off it. He did have funds for the capital part of the mortgage in an isa etc but these funds got decimated when he needed £5000 worth of dental work doing.. and so now he is not much better off than I am.. and if house prices do drop i worry for him.

Life happens.. and you need a large margin in your income to cope with these unforeseen risks happening... anyone not doing so is heading for trouble. I dont see why I should overstretch myself and risk the stability of my future family by making an unwise financial decision at this time.

Benefits_Blagger

ixwood wrote: »

People seem to expect a hefty salary, foreign holidays, nice cars, expensive schooling, countless gadgets and a nice affordable house these days. Most people have to scrimp at save initially at least, that's how it works!

No, people just want somewhere to live, a basic human right.