Lending money to friends & family

petal71

GDB2222 wrote: »

I do not think that there are any significant legal differences between Northern Ireland and England. Scotland is different, by the way.

The really big question you need to ask yourself is whether it is worth your while serving proceedings? If your friend had to borrow money from you, the chances are that she has no means of paying you back. Consequently, even if you win your court case, it may not net you any money. Not many people know this, but a startlingly high proportion of County Court orders are never satisfied (something like 70%). I would strongly advise you not to bother to go any further with this matter unless you are quite sure that your friend will have enough money to repay you (plus the court fees). Otherwise, you will simply be wasting your time and throwing good money after bad.

The next question is whether you will win the case? In particular, what proof do you need to give that the £4000 was a loan, not a gift? I think that you will find that the law is on your side in this. In your case, the presumption is that the money has been loaned, and it is up to your former friend to show that that was not the case. That throws the burden of proof on your former friend. That is not to show that she may not be successful, but she has the uphill battle, not you. She might bring evidence that you were more than just friends, for example.

Ideally, anything that this is done in writing, but the courts will recognise legal agreements made verbally, as in your case. If this ever gets to court, the judge will listen to both of you and then make up his mind what he thinks actually happened. The text you sent is evidence of what you thought at that time, and it is admissible in court.

To sum up: you probably have a good case, but do not even consider litigation unless you are quite sure that your former friend has the means to pay you back.

I have a suspicion that this friend lied to me & has more money than she led me to believe. We were a bit more than friends, but the money was definately a loan, we never lived together & in fact because of the distance in miles between us, I only met her 3 times! I got a message from someone saying she was my friend's partner, telling me not to contact her again & when I mentioned the money, she accused me of lying. I told her that I had text messages as proof & she didn't reply. I haven't been in contact with my friend since that but I'm thinking she'll probably get rid of her mobile phone & maybe even move house, as it was rented anyway, so I will probably have problems tracing her, I do have her bank account details if that is likely to be of use. Do you know if I could try taking it through the small claims court?

Emmzi

petal71 wrote: »

I have a suspicion that this friend lied to me & has more money than she led me to believe. We were a bit more than friends, but the money was definately a loan

A very expensive lesson in mixing money and sex.

With no contract you've no hope. Texts could refer to eg escort fees.

I'd let it go. You'll drive yourself mad otherwise.

petal71

Emmzi wrote: »

A very expensive lesson in mixing money and sex.

With no contract you've no hope. Texts could refer to eg escort fees.

I'd let it go. You'll drive yourself mad otherwise.

Thats what I didn't want to hear, but thanks for your help, I think it'll end up being an expensive lesson learned. I might try making contact on the off chance she has a conscience & chooses to pay, if she thinks I may take legal action.

GDB2222

petal71 wrote: »

Thats what I didn't want to hear, but thanks for your help, I think it'll end up being an expensive lesson learned. I might try making contact on the off chance she has a conscience & chooses to pay, if she thinks I may take legal action.

Curiously enough, you can issue proceedings against the last known address. This then gives you a sure win in court, as she won't hear about the case and won't turn up to defend, although she can easily enough appeal the judgement and have it re-tried if she believes she has a case. You can ask the court for an order to grab the money in the bank account that you have the details of (up to the amount you are owed) - I forget what that order's called.

The first she will probably hear about all this is when the money disappears from her account, and then it's up to her to start the appeal process if she thinks she has a chance.

If you do take proceedings, have a look at the county court fee scales, as these depend on how much you claim, and you don't have to claim the full amount. Although you can't go back for more later, you thereby limit the amount you are spending on court fees.

petal71

GDB2222 wrote: »

Curiously enough, you can issue proceedings against the last known address. This then gives you a sure win in court, as she won't hear about the case and won't turn up to defend, although she can easily enough appeal the judgement and have it re-tried if she believes she has a case. You can ask the court for an order to grab the money in the bank account that you have the details of (up to the amount you are owed) - I forget what that order's called.

The first she will probably hear about all this is when the money disappears from her account, and then it's up to her to start the appeal process if she thinks she has a chance.

If you do take proceedings, have a look at the county court fee scales, as these depend on how much you claim, and you don't have to claim the full amount. Although you can't go back for more later, you thereby limit the amount you are spending on court fees.

Thanks for this help, I'm planning to send a letter detailing the amounts I loaned and the dates and see if I get any response from my former friend. It may be worth my while speaking to a solicitor where I live as I'm not that familiar with procedures in England & I know the legal system in Northern Ireland is a bit different, when I looked online about submitting a claim, I would have needed to have an address in England, which obviously I don't as I live in N Ireland. I don't even know how to start legal proceedings, what to do first, so maybe a solicitor is the way forward, more money unfortunately.

GDB2222

Employing a solicitor swings the balance against suing: more known costs against a rather doubtful recovery.

petal71

GDB2222 wrote: »

Employing a solicitor swings the balance against suing: more known costs against a rather doubtful recovery.

What do you think I should do & how do I take this situation further?

Thanks for all your help so far, I'm useless at any kind of legal stuff, never had to do anything like this before & have no idea what to do so I really appreciate any guidance you, or anyone else can give me.

GDB2222

I would do the following:

1. Issue a letter before action detailing what you think is owed, and giving 2 weeks to pay up "or else I will issue proceedings without further notice" - sent to last known address.

2. I'd issue proceedings using MoneyClaimsOnline. This is a web service, which guides you through the process somewhat.

3. If the court the system eventually allocates you in the UK, write in and ask for it to be transferred to a court near you.

Best of all, if the last known address for the defendant that you are 100% sure of is near you (or your own address!) use a bit of poetic licence and use that.

I am not a lawyer, but you can get good advice on the uk.legal.moderated newsgroup. You can reach that using a news reader if you are familiar with that or by using google groups.

petal71

GDB2222 wrote: »

I would do the following:

1. Issue a letter before action detailing what you think is owed, and giving 2 weeks to pay up "or else I will issue proceedings without further notice" - sent to last known address.

2. I'd issue proceedings using MoneyClaimsOnline. This is a web service, which guides you through the process somewhat.

3. If the court the system eventually allocates you in the UK, write in and ask for it to be transferred to a court near you.

Best of all, if the last known address for the defendant that you are 100% sure of is near you (or your own address!) use a bit of poetic licence and use that.

I am not a lawyer, but you can get good advice on the uk.legal.moderated newsgroup. You can reach that using a news reader if you are familiar with that or by using google groups.

Thanks so much for this information, I sent a letter today & said I was giving 14 days before I took legal action, so at least I know what to do next, if I don't get a response.

scortchy

I was helped out by a family member whom paid some debts off on their Credit Card for me. I beleive this debt is now paid but am being told different. I have asked for proof of this money that is being disputed but have been informed that this not possible. I am also moving abroad in the next month but am being threathened with Small Claims Court, can this be done and will it follow me abroad??