Cca Requests Updates Please

pebbles88

rog2 wrote: »

Two things, peb:

1. Lodge the formal complaint - you can do it on line - I will look to see if there is a letter that you can send to the Bank (may take a while, if not I will 'draft' one for you.
2. You can, also, report them to Trading Standards as they are ignoring the OFT guidelines on Debt Collection.

Thanks Rog2, i would very much appreciate that. I have already lodged complaint with trading standards also, they are just backlogged like the FO at the moment.

rog2

pebbles88 wrote: »

Thanks Rog2, i would very much appreciate that.

Bear with me, peb - I have also 'called in the cavalry' by asking fermi to look at your post, as I think he was the 'author' of the letter that I'm frantically searching for.

fermi

pebbles88 wrote: »

where do i stand? What they sent was not a valid CCA. I know that much.

What exactly did they send and what was wrong with it?

Once we know that we can put together an appropriate response.

pebbles88

fermi wrote: »

What exactly did they send and what was wrong with it?

Once we know that we can put together an appropriate response.

they sent:

• a barely legible photocopy of the terms and conditions from the leaflet that i filled in at the time
• a copy of a letter that came with a replacement card with T&C's
• copy of a recent statement
• and a current t & c leaflet.

None of which apart from the letter and statement had any details on of mine.

that was all they sent. I have an SAR req in with them as they have sent some strong worded letters about how they fulfilled their part of my cca req etc.

fermi

pebbles88 wrote: »

that was all they sent. I have an SAR req in with them as they have sent some strong worded letters about how they fulfilled their part of my cca req etc.

Is this a credit card or loan?

blind-as-a-bat_2

pebbles88 wrote: »

they sent:

• a barely legible photocopy of the terms and conditions from the leaflet that i filled in at the time
• a copy of a letter that came with a replacement card with T&C's
• copy of a recent statement
• and a current t & c leaflet.

None of which apart from the letter and statement had any details on of mine.

that was all they sent. I have an SAR req in with them as they have sent some strong worded letters about how they fulfilled their part of my cca req etc.

Can you make out if it contains any prescribed terms?

blind-as-a-bat_2

fermi wrote: »

Is this a credit card or loan?

a copy of a letter that came with a replacement card with T&C's

i think its safe to say its a CC;)

fermi

blind-as-a-bat wrote: »

Can you make out if it contains any prescribed terms?

The prescribed terms have to be within the signature document, not in a T&C leaflet I think.

Wilson & Anor v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299 (04 April 2007)

Paragraph 9.

It is not necessary or rewarding to go on a grand tour of the legislation in order to explain the issues we have to decide. Put shortly section 60 (1) of the Act gives power to the Secretary of State to make regulations as to the form and content of documents embodying regulated agreements. Section 61 (1) provides that a regulated agreement is not properly executed unless it is in a document containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to the regulations made under section 60 (1).

An improperly executed agreement is enforceable against the debtor only on an order of the court (section 65 (1)), but no such an order can be made unless it contains all the prescribed terms (section 127 (3)).

Paragraph 11.

Schedule 1 to the 1983 Regulations sets out the “information to be contained in documents embodying regulated consumer credit agreements”. Some of this information mirrors the terms prescribed by schedule 6, but some does not. Contrasting the provisions of the two schedules the Judge said:

“In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties (with the benefit of legal advice if necessary) and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under section 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127 (3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement. More detailed requirements, which are designed to ensure that the debtor is made aware, so far as possible, of specified information (including information contained in the minimum terms) are to be found in Schedule 1.”

I agree. The discretionary power under section 65 (1) to order enforcement of an agreement which does not comply with schedule 1 may be exercised on terms discharging the debtor from having to pay any sum payable under the agreement (section 127 (2)).

fermi

OK.

Read carefully through the letter below to see whether the statements it makes match your circumstances and what they have sent.

You may want to adjust if you already have complaints in etc.........

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated <date>, the contents of which are noted.

However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated <date>.

My request remains outstanding.

The documentation supplied does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement and that which you sent does not even contain all the prescribed terms and is not properly executed.

An agreement MUST conform to regulations made under the provisions of section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 otherwise it cannot be properly executed.

These regulations are the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553). The regulations set out the form and content of agreements. For an agreement to be compliant with the regulations it MUST embody within the agreement, the prescribed terms laid out in the SI 1983/1553. Without the prescribed terms the agreement does not conform to section 60(1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and therefore cannot be properly executed as described in section 61(1).

For your information in case you are unsure, the prescribed terms referred to are contained in schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia: -

• A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

• A term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and:

• A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following:-

(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

Now, nowhere on the alleged agreement that you supplied is there any reference to these terms.

I wish to remind you that the absence of these terms will render a document unenforceable in court and I also wish to point out that these terms MUST be contained within the agreement and NOT in a separate document headed terms and conditions or words to that effect.

Therefore, you have failed to supply an enforceable and properly executed document and therefore remain in default of my legal request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

As you are no doubt aware sections 77/78 state:

If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—

(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true copy of the said executed agreement.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS and with be VIGOROUSLY defended, putting you to a STRICT PROOF of your claim and COMPLIANCE with the law.

If you cannot supply me with a document, which complies with the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and ALL of the Regulations made under the Act, I shall be forced to make a complaint to Trading Standards and I will also draw this to the attention of the Office of Fair Trading.

You had until <date> to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

Therefore you have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future.

Should you not have any signed and properly executed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

blind-as-a-bat_2

fermi wrote: »

The prescribed terms have to be within the signature document, not in a T&C leaflet I think.

Wilson & Anor v Hurstanger Ltd [2007] EWCA Civ 299 (04 April 2007)

I know, but if there not even in the copy, it makes things a lot easier;)