Cca Requests Updates Please

debtman2007

blind-as-a-bat wrote: »

Erm yes, but i wouldnt suggest useing my style of response, i may have left them no alternative than to take it to court.

Long story but after several traumatic events last year my OH was forced to leave her job, and is now on IB suffering from boughts of severe depresion and agrophobia so in short has no surplus to offer payment and little chance of that changing any time soon.

If what i am doing for her fails she will be left with no alternative than to go bankrupt, so we have nothing to lose, so i am willing to push any creditor to the limit to prove the debt.

You have to way up the risk to your own personal situation, but going to court for them to decide is not always a bad thing even if you lose, the court wil in nearly all cases order a payment you can afford, and that will then protect you against the creditor demanding more, so is not as bad as the creditor would have you believe

That is as long as you dont have property they could apply for a charging order on, as that changes the goalposts somewhat

Thats my worry, that they force me to sell my house.

At a loss where to go with thiss now. I dont mind fighting my corner with 1st Credit over teh phone when i know im right but if this is a valid CCA then they have me over a barrell. I cant scan the pages in to show you either.

I might try and phone NDL. Bummer.

i thought no sign of a signature would be in my favour though.

blind-as-a-bat_2

debtman2007 wrote: »

Thats my worry, that they force me to sell my house.

At a loss where to go with thiss now. I dont mind fighting my corner with 1st Credit over teh phone when i know im right but if this is a valid CCA then they have me over a barrell. I cant scan the pages in to show you either.

I might try and phone NDL. Bummer.

i thought no sign of a signature would be in my favour though.

It is, your in a better position than me;) if they cant come up with better than that (IE a valid credit agreemant WITH your signature) the court cannot enforce it, end of.

Im fighting on incomplete/iledgible responces, but that is not as clear cut as the judge may or may not agree that its enough to stop enforcemant, although i have a few other reasons that i hope he cant argue with regarding the one going through court at the moment

blind-as-a-bat_2

oscar52 wrote: »

Just had a second look at that table - its hard to read, but looks everything is there.

Apart from the rest of the T&C,s, so they havnt got it right yet..................

debtman2007

blind-as-a-bat wrote: »

It is, your in a better position than me;) if they cant come up with better than that (IE a valid credit agreemant WITH your signature) the court cannot enforce it, end of.

Im fighting on incomplete/iledgible responces, but that is not as clear cut as the judge may or may not agree that its enough to stop enforcemant, although i have a few other reasons that i hope he cant argue with regarding the one going through court at the moment

Im confused as to what they have actually sent me tho.

blind-as-a-bat_2

debtman2007 wrote: »

Im confused as to what they have actually sent me tho.

They have sent you nothing to do with your CCA request

All that Bull is nothing to do with What you requested as your request was made under sec 78 of the CCA act, and has nothing to do with the drivel they have sent you.

The act is quite specific, if a debtor requests a true copy of the credit agreemant the creditor must supply said copy otherwise they cannot enforce the alledged agreemant.

There are many arguments by creditors of why this is not the case but they are a white wash, because, as i have already said, if they wish to enforce the agreemant in court, they must produce that agreemant, bearing your signature to prove you entered that agreemant, now a copy may surfice if the creditor can prove to the judges satisfation that it is a true copy, but it still must comply with the CCA act and include the prescribed terms, one of which is the debtor signature

debtman2007

Thanks for that. Sorry but It takes some time to sink in

IS there a copy anywhere on here of what a true CCA looks like?

blind-as-a-bat_2

There may be somewhere on MSE but im not sure if there are any in this thread , but they must contain the prescribed terms as stated in fermis post, #1296, be signed and dated by the debtor and the creditor or someone acting as an agent, or on behalf of the creditor.

If the document they have sent you contains no signatures, its not an executed agreemant so is unenforceable

78.—(1) The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within
the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor
and payment of a fee of £1, shall give the debtor a copy of the executed
agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, together with a
statement signed by or on behalf of the creditor showing, according to the information
to which it is practicable for him to refer,—
(a) the state of the account, and
(b) the amount, if any, currently payable under the agreement by the debtor to the
creditor, and
(c) the amounts and due dates of any payments which, if the debtor does not draw
further on the account, will later become payable under the agreement by the
debtor to the creditor.
(2) If the creditor possesses insufficient information to enable him to ascertain the
amounts and dates mentioned in subsection (l)©, he shall be taken to comply with that
paragraph if his statement under subsection (1) gives the basis on which, under the
regulated agreement, they would fall to be ascertained.
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply to—
(a) an agreement under which no sum is, or will or may become, payable by
the debtor, or
(b) a request made less than one month after a previous request under that
subsection relating ~o the same agreement was complied with.
(4) Where running-account credit is provided under a regulated agreement, the
creditor shall give the debtor statements in the prescribed form, and with the
prescribed content
(a) showing according to the information to which it is practicable for him to
refer, the state of the account at regular intervals of not more than twelve
months, and
(b) where the agreement provides, in relation to specified periods, for the
making of payments by the debtor, or the charging against him of interest
or any other sum, showing according to the information to which it is
practicable for him to refer the state of the account at the end of each of
those periods during which there is any movement in the account.
(5) A statement under subsection (4) shall be given within the prescribed period
after the end of the period to which the statement relates.
(6) If the creditor under an agreement fails to comply with subsection (1)—
(a) he is not entitled, while the default continues, to enforce the agreement;

61.—(1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless
(a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms
and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed
manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner,
and(b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms,
and
(c) the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in
such a state that all its terms are readily legible.
(2) In addition, where the agreement is one to which section 58(1) applies, it is not
properly executed unless
(a) the requirements of section 58(1) were complied with, and
(b) the unexecuted agreement was sent, for his signature. to the debtor or hirer
by post not less than seven days after a copy of it was given to him under
section 58(1), and
(c) during the consideration period, the creditor or owner refrained from
approaching the debtor or hirer (whether in person, by telephone or letter,
or in any other way) except in response to a specific request made by the
debtor or hirer after the beginning of the consideration period, and
(d) no notice of withdrawal by 'the debtor or hirer was received by the creditor
or owner before the sending of the unexecuted agreement.
(3) In subsection (2)(c), " the consideration period " means the period beginning
with the giving of the copy under section 58(1) and ending—
(a) at the expiry of seven days after the day on which the unexecuted
agreement is sent, for his signature, to the debtor or hirer, or
(b) on its return by the debtor or hirer after signature by hum, whichever first
occurs.
37
(4) Where the debtor or hirer is a partnership or an unincorporated body of
persons, subsection (l)(a) shall apply with the substitution for " by the debtor or
hirer " of " by or on behalf of the debtor or hirer ".

blind-as-a-bat_2

It must also comply with the relavent sections of tha Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, but that is secondary to the CCA act, it does not replace it as i Citi are trying to make you believe

debtman2007

blind-as-a-bat wrote: »

It must also comply with the relavent sections of tha Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, but that is secondary to the CCA act, it does not replace it as i Citi are trying to make you believe

It looks as though they have sent me the T&C's for the agreements/reguulations but nothing as part of the signed agreement itself.

blind-as-a-bat_2

debtman2007 wrote: »

It looks as though they have sent me the T&C's for the agreements/reguulations but nothing as part of the signed agreement itself.

From what you said in your post i would say you are Correct;)