Cca Requests Updates Please

maz1964

yes stapely, thanks for the reminder for this one tonight

i totally agree with you from your previous post,

in normal business you do not sign a contract until you are happy with it thus goods do not get exchanged, this is what should have been done with said credit card too to protect consumers and creditors,

i read somewhere that the creator of the cca 1974 had actually put in place
something to basically say that if the creditor did not put into place the basic terms and thus didnt draw up the agreement as set out by the act then they could not enforce the debrtor to pay and should be deemed as unenforceable and if such a mistake was made - basically tough! This was passed by Parliament, which really shows that the cca should be valid and fully executed and if not then the creditor should suffer their loss.
But i cant find the quote as i would really like to quote it with my complaint to the FOS

but will keep looking

ciao for now MAZ

blind-as-a-bat_2

stapeley wrote: »

Despite several threatening letter from different DCA,s I still have not been taken to court !

The facts are ,
Loan companies and credit card companies sent out application forms and issued loans and credit cards without much care .
What should of happened was after applications were successful , a CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT FORM WITH ALL THE PERSCRIBED TERMS AND CONDITIONS WITHIN A DOCUMENT , should then have been signed by an applicant
This signature box should have been located at the end of the document ensuring that the terms and condition were read before signing .
The loan company should then have signed the AGREEMENT FORM , FILED IT SECURELY and sent you a copy with the LOAN OR. CREDIT CARD .
This format was not followed correctly by a large number of companies . Too late they realised this and put pressure on the grovenment to amended the CC ACT to cover themselves .
If the CC companies and LOAN companies were certain that they have a correctly formulated agreement enforceable in law , WHY WOULD THEY WANT TO SELL THE DEBT OFF FOR PEANUTS TO DEBT COLLECTION AGENTS ?
Anwsers on a post card please !

And why would said DCA commence legal action without informing the debtor they even own the debt, with no intention of showing up in court, but hope you dont either so they win by default

Because they know its probebly unenforceable, thats why it was sold to them for peanuts, but as long as they can 1 in 4, 1 in 10, or whatever, by default whether its enforceable or not the numbers still work out in there favour

idlikemymoneybackplease

Hello advice please I have a credit card with barclycard which I have had for the past 10 years up until recently I have been paying minimum payments via DD now paying cash in bank. If I was to ask for a copy of the orig agreement what are the chances of them having it? Also what would be the outcome if they do not. Can they still make me pay send bailiffs round take me to court etc, I own well pay mortgage on my own home. How risky is this?

debtman2007

I have posted this on the 1st credit thread but thought some of the regular CCA'ers may be intereted.


Received this letter today for one of my Citi accounts now held by 1st credit. Incidently this came direct from Citi in Derby.

Anyone care to take a look and tell me exactly where this leaves me. To be honest it doesn't make a great of sense to me. Also there is certainly no signed document anywhere.

---

Thank you for your recent request for information. We regret to inform you that section 78 CCA 1974 does not require CitiFinancial to provide you with a copy if the executed agreement as you appear to belive. It requires CitiFinancial to provide you with a "copy of the executed agreement" as defined by the Cusomer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983. the olbligation to provide you that document is fulfilled by the provision of teh terms and conditions, which are supplied on customers upon reissue or issue of their card, being printed on teh card carrier.
we enclose a copy of the terms and conditions for your account. this is an industry standard document and conforms to the Regulations. We set out below a summary of teh same for your information.

180 Power to prescribe form etc of copies.
(1) Regulations may be made as to the form and content of documents to be issued as copies of any executed agreement, security instrument or other document referred to in the Act, and may in particualr -
(a) require specified information to be included in teh prescribed manner in any copy , and contain requirements to ensure that such information is clearly brought to the attention of a reader of teh copy;
(b) authorise teh omission from a copy of certain material contained in teh original, or the inclusion of such material in condensed form.

The Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 make it clear at Reg 3 that the "copy executed agreement" is not required to be an exact replica of teh original agreement per se but an extract since it is allowed to omit certain information including any signature box, signature, or date of signature

yours Sincerely

Data Request Team

---

Then follows 15 pages of terms and conditions.

Any advice please?

fermi

Is this a copy of an agreement or just some unspecific terms and conditions?

You have probably seen this before, but..........

IS MY AGREEMENT ENFORCEABLE (Via section 127(3) CCA1974).

PRESCRIBED TERMS FOR THE PURPOSES OF SECTIONS 61(1)(0) AND 127(3) OF THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974 Taken from schedule.6 (1983/1553) regulations

(If you just want to find out, skip the bits in between the stars it’s just some extra information)

**What do we mean by unenforceable?

In the Consumer Credit Act section 127 there is a provision for making an agreement unenforceable if it does not contain certain pieces of information.

Subsections 1,2,3,4 state which pieces of information these are, and everything mentioned there must be included within the body of the agreement, if one is missing the agreement is unenforceable.

How does unenforceable differ from enforceable with a court order only?

When an agreement is unenforceable it means that the court or the judge cannot make a ruling on it. The court cannot make it enforceable.

When an agreement is enforceable only by ruling of the court it means that the agreement can be stopped by the debtor but the court has the power to re-instate it and allow the credit to continue to enforce.**

The Prescribed Terms are these:

A Amount of credit

A term stating the amount of credit

B Repayments

A term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following:-

(a) Number of repayments;
(b) Amount of repayments;
(c) Frequency and timing of repayments;
(d) Dates of repayments;
(e) The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable.

C Rate of interest

A term stating the rate of interest to be applied to the credit issued under the agreement

D Credit limit

This may be a term or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit.

---

Which of these applies to you depends on the type of agreement you have?

For a Running Account (credit card) agreement

BC and D Apply

For a Restricted Use Debtor Creditor Supplier

• Where the dealer is the supplier and the creditor is the one providing the finance.
• The money can only be used for the purpose it is given.
• There is no interest on the purchase (the cash price is the same as the total price)
• And there is no advance payment

A is applicable

For a fixed Sum Credit Agreement

A conventional credit agreement with none of the above restrictions

A and B apply

For a Hire Agreement

B is Applicable

Please note that these Prescribed terms where not changed in any way by the 2004/1482 Amendments although the form in which they appear on the agreement was. Subsection127(3) was repealed on the 6th of April 2007 so that unenforceability due to 127(3) will only apply to agreements executed before that date.

debtman2007

It just looks like a load of T&C's

I would have expected to see something with a signature on it though?

Also there is nothing specific to me on teh T&c's e.g. name, account number etc.


Im slightly concered now, should i expect a barrage of phone calls from 1st Credit

rochdalecowboy_2

i am being taken to court by marlin for a £4500 credit card debt to hfc. i wrote to them on 2nd august asking for a copy of my agreement, they never sent this, i have sent in to the court a defence on the grounds that they have failed to comply with the CCA. Then this morning a copy turns up so i might be in limbo. I am not sure though wether it is the proper credit agreement as it is titled " your priority application for the freeserve card" there is no mention of interest rates, repayments, defaults or penalties, it just basically says it will share my info with credit ref agencies, although at the end where i have signed it says "this is a credit agreement regulated by the CCA1974 sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms"
any help would be gratefully appreciated

blind-as-a-bat_2

rochdalecowboy wrote: »

i am being taken to court by marlin for a £4500 credit card debt to hfc. i wrote to them on 2nd august asking for a copy of my agreement, they never sent this, i have sent in to the court a defence on the grounds that they have failed to comply with the CCA. Then this morning a copy turns up so i might be in limbo. I am not sure though wether it is the proper credit agreement as it is titled " your priority application for the freeserve card" there is no mention of interest rates, repayments, defaults or penalties, it just basically says it will share my info with credit ref agencies, although at the end where i have signed it says "this is a credit agreement regulated by the CCA1974 sign it only if you want to be legally bound by its terms"
any help would be gratefully appreciated

No APR = unenfoceable whether it is an application or actuall agreement.

It is one of the prescribed terms, if its missing a court cannot enforce on that bit of paper alone

debtman2007

Mine has Apr

blind-as-a-bat_2

to be enforceable in court the creditor must produce a signed document, or copy with full audit trail to saticefy the court it is a true copy, so that also must show you signed the agreemant

So whatever they claim complys to a CCA request is academic if they wish to take you to court over it;)