Euro Profile Cylinder locks not safe

ukwoody

OK lets be realistic here for a moment. I speak as someone who does a lot of locksmith callout work and has done for 10 years now. Firstly if you have the right tools, you can get into most locks fairly easily. Euro cylinders if fitted correctly are just as secure as many others and, more so then most ordinary yale type cylinders. I can open a yale (correctly called a Rim cylinder) in about 20 seconds using an electric pick gun. I can also drill one out in about 3 mins.

I can snap a euro cylinder and be in the house within 1 minute if it has not been fitted correctly and if it's not an anti snap one.
Sleepless yet????

BUT firstly almost any house can be got into if a burgler desires. Secondly, most cylinders are fitted correctly. For most of us, break ins are rare - thats not to say we should be complacent. Bump keys only work so well - and then you need the right bump keys for the right lock. The same for Rakers, Rattlers, Picks, Jigglers and God knows how many other methods. And believe me it takes a lot of time to get to know what profiles will work on what lock, - and then theres still an element of guess work involved. Then there's Reachers for handles, letter box tools etc etc etc. The list goes on.

Cheap cylinders are not generally very good so if given the choice - steer clear. The better ones are 6 pin or even 7 now (as opposed to the old 5 pin), have stainless steel anti-drill pins in them, mushroom pins to prevent bumping, and unique profiles.Some will be anti snap depending on the length of them (they vary considerably). And they will cost you about £30 - £40 each.
AND WE CAN STILL GET THRU THEM! - although it will take a bit longer and make more noise.

Remember 33% of all breakins are by opportunist thieves gaining entry through open doors and windows - many whilst people are indoors!
A further 40% are carried out by people who know their targets personally.
The majority of breakins occur between 7am and 9pm - not at night. And more occur during the winter especially on the build up to Christmas.

So the main lessons are common sense. DONT leave doors and windows
unlocked if going out. Do lock sheds up. Dont leave valuables on display.
Get the locks changed if you think someone may have access to your keys.
Fit an outside security light and if going away fit a timer onto a light within a room.
Sleep tight all and don't panic. Just be sensible.

If anyone wants a bit of free advice about their house locks, drop me a PM and I'll try to help.

Woody

bogart99_2

andrew-b wrote: »

Thanks roswell..i did try bashing the screwdriver with a mallet but perhaps the harder tap from a hammer will do the job. Think i'll wait until i've got a new lock with new retaining screw to put back in before being a bit more brutal with it.

If that fails has anyone tried using these screw extractors (or similar).... http://www.screwfix.com/prods/18643/Drill-Bits/Specialist-Drill-Bits/Screw-Extractor-Set
...or am i more likely to wreck the screw hole too?

Euro cylinders i was considering were: http://www.screwfix.com/prods/57048/Security/Euro-Cylinder-Locks/6-Pin-Euro-Cylinders/Snapsafe-6-pin-Euro-Profile-Mortice-Lock-Cylinder
..though without a brand name given i'm a bit wary if they will be any good.

Andy

They are made by Squire whose breakable Euro cylinders are called Snapsafe, so your not getting a no name make.

pcplod

Hi there,
Unfortunately no this is not a scaremonger tactic, however there are ways to combat this. Obviously in my line of work i see this all the time. You can do simple things like buy drop down bolts which are made in UPVC white and brown to attach to the inside of the door at the top and bottom to distribute the weight. These simply screw into the metal casing through the UPVC. Unfortunately the design flaw with these are you can only lock them when you're in, and since the growing trend, (contrary to popular belief) is that a large percentage of burglary dwellings occur during the day when people who actually work for a living are mainly out, means that these are not really effective.
My advice would be to put these on any side or rear doors and then exit the front door which is most on show.
There are other options like a new lock which fits in exactly the same as the traditional ones but the brass part of the lock sits flush with the door (not the handle) and then when the burglar snaps off the handle to allow access to grip the lock with a pair of molegrips there is actually nothing to grip and therefore the lock remains intact.

For a more dtailed explanation go to any reputable locksmiths and ask their advice.
I hope that this helps.

ukwoody

Pcplod. For a start dont be so damn stupid as to say on a public forum various techniques burglers use. Why not just stand out in the high street and give Mole grips away!!! I cannot believe any sensible copper would come out with such stuff.

Secondly, that method actually only works in extreme cases and importantly, if the europrofile lock is fitted correctly that should be very hard to do anyway. We use special tools to snap locks for this reason, ie Moles very very rarely work. The thief would then have to know exactly how to open the lock, something I'm not going into here.
The sort of cylinder you refer to is sometimes not available in the smaller sizes.

If your euro cylinder finishes either flush with or JUST past the face of your handles that is probably fitted correctly. If it sticks out more than about 5mm, then yes you are a bit more at risk, if it sticks out 10mm then I would reccomend you consider getting it changed. And a good quality cylinder is far better then cheap ones.
But please do not loose sleep over this, as has been said before, there are other ways to get in just as fast if they want too.
woody

TimBuckTeeth

If someone is determined to get in then they will by brute force, luckily I live in a fairly low crime area and hope that the burglar alarm is some deterrent. The worrying thing about bumping is that the insurance might not pay out.

I had a looking into bumping a while ago and it does appear to be quite easy but I am more concerned about the lower plastic panel in my UPVC door. I heard that they are quite easy to remove. Is there anything that can be done to make it more secure without making a mess of the door?

ukwoody

Tim. Modern panels fitted within about the last 10 years are not normally that easy to remove. But it's like anything. if they want to get in they will. PLEASE dont be panicked by this thread, it really pees me off, a lot of it is pure scaremongering and nothing else. I deal with about 8 locksmith callouts a week, and VERY VERY few are due to professional burglers who will get in anywhere. 99% are carried out by opportunist thievs - usually thru unlocked doors and windows.

woody

white_cj

Squire have recently brought out a euro cylinder which is not only snapsafe like the Garrison break-secure item but is also available in anti-bump. The cylinder also comes as standard 'anti-drill' thus offering all the security features desired from a euro cylinder. I have seen them online at:

https://www.upvc-hardware.co.uk/safety-security-193/extra-security-189/snapsafe-anti-bump-euro-cylinder-door-lock-barrel-586.html

Crime prevention officers tend to recommend high security 'PAS 24' door handles instead of any type of high security euro cylinder though. This is because the handles pass certain standards and are approved by the 'secured by design' program. Also the handles act as a visual deterrent to the would be burglar where as the high security euro cylinders don't. Here's a link to the handles:

https://www.upvc-hardware.co.uk/safety-security-193/extra-security-189/hoppe-pas24-secured-by-design-92-pz-door-handles-691.html

These handles will only fit onto a limited number of upvc doors though.

moonrakerz

white_cj wrote: »

Squire have recently brought out a euro cylinder which is not only snapsafe like the Garrison break-secure item but is also available in anti-bump.

The website you link to says:

"Anti-Bump Feature: This helps protect the lock from being bumped". To me this doesn't sound like "bump-proof ". The price, to be honest, would indicate that as well.

Bungarm2001

Yes well, this has just about proved my side of a long going argument I have had for years with my OH. I have never been a fan of dble glazed UPVC doors mainly because of the security probs. I actually do know someone who was 'bumped' and her house trashed as was a good number of people in her street over a few weeks last year. The irony is, she actually works for a DG firm.

Like UKWoody, I truly believe that most burglaries an break ins are perpertrated by opportunist thieves, but there are the hard core serial burglars out there that will use anything once they are determined. I've stuck to me good old fashioned thick wooden door with 2x5 lever locks and Union drawback nightlatch lock. When I stupidly lost my keys once, it took our local locksmith 30 mins to get in.

We had a UPVC backdoor and I was appalled at how easy it was for my OH to remove the lower panel before refitting it with a catflap installed...had many a sleepless night before I got him to cobble together something far more secure.. We own a few properties with UPVC backdoors and for the peace of mind of our tenants, we have covered the lower panel with sheet metal screwed to the plastc mouldings with loads of tiny screws. It won't stop the most determined housebreaker, but at least they'd probably think twice if they are faced with an unexpected layer of metal.

ormus

but you are still not protected from a brick, which is by far, the most likely way of them getting into your house.