Unite against the biggest bank scam!

MarkyMarkD

dchurch24 wrote:

If a direct debit or standing order is returned UNPAID because it takes 9 days to 'clear' a cheque, the customer is charged between 25 to 35 quid.

No bank takes 9 days to clear a cheque on a current account. It's 2 or 3 working days.

dchurch24 wrote:

Use a barclays debit card in a lloyds machine, and it will cost you 1.75.

That's not using your own bank's machine. Even if it were true (which other posters suggest it is not), that's an extra service over and above letting you withdraw money from your own bank's ATMs for free.

dchurch24 wrote:

Also, in Sweden, New Zealand and pretty much everywhere, you legally have the right to choose how you are paid by your employer - i.e. cash, cheque, direct transfer, camels etc... In this country we don't have that right. We can ask, but if the employer refuses, then bad luck - that is their right. Most employers pay by direct transfer into a - you guessed it - bank account - so what choice do we have but to give these ungrateful, money grabbing institutions our hard earned cash for little or no return? None. If I had the choice and I still chose to use banks, then I would accept that I would have to pay for it.
As it is, it charges for services that I don't want.

Employers pay by bank transfer because it is the cheapest way for them, and because it's what 90+% of their employees want. If you want to live in the dark ages and withdraw 100% of your salary from your bank account each pay day in cash, then you can, by visiting your bank's branch and this would cost you nothing at all. Why should your employer incur the cost of security transport, secure cashiering facilities, etc. just for the one or two odd people who want paying in cash?

Walletwatch

dchurch24 wrote:

£1.75 to get to our own money from a cash mashine? £32 quid if they can't move the money in time (and 20% of bank account holders pay these charges).

I would say that British banks also charge for their services - albiet in a much more dishonest and stealthy way.

There is no denying that there are some banks that must pull up their socks as they take upto five working days to clear cheques (Halifax is a typical example where I've had such a problem), but then the discerning customer will stop depositing chqs out there, I guess, and such banks will thus (hopefully) learn things the hard way.

I don't however, think any bank charges you to use its own ATM, nor do I agree that British banks charge in a dishonest and stealthy way, given that the charges themselves are clearly mentioned in the T&Cs you and I sign up to when we begin our banking relationships.

dunstonh

Quote:
Originally Posted by dchurch24
Use a barclays debit card in a lloyds machine, and it will cost you 1.75.


Barclays and Lloyds are on the same network and use of each others machines is free.

AndyR_3

Barclays won't charge you for using any UK cash machine. The cash machine owner may make a charge (e.g. these machines that are popping up in pubs and nightclubs).

Banks do a lot of things wrong, but if you're going to have a go, please get your facts straight first.

JasonW_2

Some people use the cheque clearing time to their own advantage though. Such as before they get paid but need to eat! Pay by cheque, and the money doesnt come out til after you are paid. In the meantime you dont die of starvation. Never done it myself as cheques are just a pain, but thats a good side to them.

JW

apcorbett

Having worked in a bank (a long time ago), I can easily understand the frustration of the clearance cycle.

However, at the end of the day, the number of days is actually to protect not only the bank, but yourself.

Picture this scenario:

Sell car for £10,000 - agree to give car to new owner on clearance of cheque. Bank says, cheque will be cleared in three days. So on the fourth day, you merrily take the £10,000 out, give the keys of your lovely car to Mr. Bloggs, who drives away...

Next day, bank phones up - the cheque has bounced, your account is now £10k short and Mr. Bank Manager wants the money back - which you've just spent on that dream holiday...

So, the cycle is:

Day 1: Where you paid it in
Day 2: At the clearing centre
Day 3: At the receiving bank
Day 4: If unpaid, in the post 1st class back to your bank
Day 5: You'll know about it (providing Mr. Postman has delivered it on time!)

Walletwatch

apcorbett wrote:

Having worked in a bank (a long time ago), I can easily understand the frustration of the clearance cycle.

However, at the end of the day, the number of days is actually to protect not only the bank, but yourself.

Picture this scenario:

Sell car for £10,000 - agree to give car to new owner on clearance of cheque. Bank says, cheque will be cleared in three days. So on the fourth day, you merrily take the £10,000 out, give the keys of your lovely car to Mr. Bloggs, who drives away...

Next day, bank phones up - the cheque has bounced, your account is now £10k short and Mr. Bank Manager wants the money back - which you've just spent on that dream holiday...

So, the cycle is:

Day 1: Where you paid it in
Day 2: At the clearing centre
Day 3: At the receiving bank
Day 4: If unpaid, in the post 1st class back to your bank
Day 5: You'll know about it (providing Mr. Postman has delivered it on time!)

Hi

I think the fact that the bank needs to ensure that funds are cleared before making them available to the payee of the cheque is well understood, and is not being disputed. The issue here is why should this take upto five working days!!!

Having been in charge of a branch with a multinational bank in India, I can give you the corresponding sequence of events as it would happen for a chq deposited in India:

Day 1: Chq drawn on Bank A is deposited in Bank B. As part of processing, the chq is credited to the account for value next day, and funds available EOD the next day. That afternoon, the chq is sent to the clearing house by the deadline of the Clearing House (15:00 IST if I remember correct)

Day 2: Morning 8:00, returned chqs from the previous days lot are received and processed, so that by 12:00 mid day, holds can be released, and funds made available in your account !!!

Mind you, the above is the case for non-high value cheques, where one has to wait till the next day for funds to be available in their account for withdrawal.

For high value chqs, (amount above INR 100000, roughly GBP 1250) it is in fact even better - so far as you deposit the chq before 12:00, the amount is cleared and made available same day, at no cost.

11:00 - High value chq deposited at the Bank - as part of processing, the funds are credited value the same day, but a hold is placed for the chq amount, to cover the eventuality of it being returned.
12:00 - All high value chqs sent to the Clearing house
15:00 - High value chq returns received from the Clearing house
17:00 - Returned chqs processed to reverse the credit to the accounts where they were deposited. Holds deleted and funds now available to the account holder for withdrawal the same day !!!

Mind you, I am talking of a place like Chennai or Bangalore - things may take a max of one more day in a larger area like Bombay, with high value chqs available the next day, and the rest on the third day from the date of deposit. We are here, talking of volumes of chqs much higher than that in the UK, with the added complication of the huge network of branches that the clearing house has to deal with (The biggest bank in India has around 8000 branches !!!)

Clearly, if India can do it in such a short span of time, technology or complexity cannot be an excuse for the UK banks - it is either incompetence or greed, the latter being the more probable of the two.

rubytuesday

JasonW wrote:

Some people use the cheque clearing time to their own advantage though. Such as before they get paid but need to eat! Pay by cheque, and the money doesnt come out til after you are paid. In the meantime you dont die of starvation. Never done it myself as cheques are just a pain, but thats a good side to them.

JW

Exactly I have had to do that in the past and it really helps!Does it really matter if you take a minute more to pay? Get a life please!

dchurch24

>> No bank takes 9 days to clear a cheque on a current account. It's 2 or 3 working days.

An Egg current account will take 8 working days - that will always include a weekend - making it 10 days to clear a cheque. I was on the phone to Egg a fortnight ago and they confirmed this.

>>Banks do a lot of things wrong, but if you're going to have a go, please get your facts straight first.

When using a Lloyds TSB cash machine in my local town I was charged £1.75 (it may have been £1.50 but I honestly cannot remember) each time for withdrawing money from a Barclays account. I was even instructed not to do so by one of their 'personal bankers'. I admit that this was some time ago, I wouldn't wish a Barclays account on anyone, and have closed that account some 2 years ago.

As for the charges being transparent - well, that's just a lie. It does not cost £32 to send you a letter telling you that one of your direct debits has not been paid. Thus making it a penal clause, which is illegal (1999 consumer credit - unfair terms in contracts). I would say that this makes the charges dishonest.

AndyR_3

>> When using a Lloyds TSB cash machine in my local town I was charged £1.75 (it may have been £1.50 but I honestly cannot remember) each time for withdrawing money from a Barclays account. I was even instructed not to do so by one of their 'personal bankers'. I admit that this was some time ago

Currently they do not charge in the circumstances you detailed. They did but the charge was scrapped a few years ago.

>> As for the charges being transparent - well, that's just a lie. It does not cost £32 to send you a letter telling you that one of your direct debits has not been paid. Thus making it a penal clause, which is illegal (1999 consumer credit - unfair terms in contracts). I would say that this makes the charges dishonest.

It would be dishonest if they didn't tell you they were going to charge, but since their tariff of charges is in the public domain, and a copy should be given out when you open an account, and a new copy sent when there are any changes, I don't see how it's dis-honest.

There are more costs in monitering bad accounts than printing a letter.

What is dis-honest is trying to steal money from the bank by writing cheques when you know there are not funds available.