Possible primary school appeal

bestpud

Lol, I believe you were asked for figures to support your claim that faith schools have changed! That is a claim you have continued to make - with no sign of said figures, except for one school.

I have not actually made any claims as to the percentage of children being admitted to a faith school who are from the stated religion, or not. I'm not sure, in that case, why figures would support or weaken my argument? Or, are you arguing that faith schools cannot select pupils and as such follow the same admissions procedure as non faith state schools?

The point about families choosing not to send their children to faith schools despite being able to is just the point isn't it? It is saying families who belong to a church are somehow better than those who do not and therefore have more choice. Well, why should that be so?

There is inequality everywhere - that was the very point I was making! Take the NHS post code lottery though - would you say it was fair of the NHS to admit patients by faith? I'd say no - because it is a state funded right for all and few believe it should select patients based on anything other than clinical need, if that. Like with education, it is a fact that some can opt out but that does not make it ok for those left with the NHS to be selected on the basis of their beliefs does it?.

Sooo, there are lots and lots of 'issues' but we are talking about faith schools being able to select pupils when they are all but state funded. Why do you find it so difficult to stick to the topic in hand? If you are firm in your belief it is the correct way to run a state funded education system, then why not just argue that point instead of diverting elsewhere all the time?

poet123

Because all the points I have raised are pertinent and relevant,if you cannot seee that then there really is no point in continuing the debate.

I have no figures to support my claim s that the make up of faith schools are not what they were years ago. I am not sure if such figures exist. I can speak from personal experience.

No one has said that children who attend faith schools are better.....and the selection does of course include refernce to faith but it is not first criteria or even second. The faith reference comes in 3rd place if you are in the catchmnet area,followed by siblings, then any other child(of whatever religion or none) who wants a place. So, to answer your question all faith schools are by law required to have higher categories than actual faith in their admission criteria. This has not always been the case but it is now.

bestpud

poet123 wrote: »

Because all the points I have raised are pertinent and relevant.

As are mine - without needing to divert. :rolleyes:

I have no figures to support my claim s that the make up of faith schools are not what they were years ago. I am not sure if such figures exist. I can speak from personal experience.

As can I, and I can say for a fact that out of catchment children have no chance of getting into one of the faith schools here unless they have proof (from a vicar or priest) to say they are regular attenders and have been for years. Therefore, those children whose parents attend church are able to access the better schools, while those who do not are left with the dross. Further, those with a proven religion are transported across the county to the faith schools at little cost. But the parents do not pay for that education, any more than those without that benefit do. Well, how can that be correct?
No one has said that children who attend faith schools are better.....

No, they are not better, so why are they entitled to more choice within the state education system? Others have to choose state or private - why does faith make a difference?

..............................

bestpud

poet123 wrote: »

No one has said that children who attend faith schools are better.....and the selection does of course include refernce to faith but it is not first criteria or even second. The faith reference comes in 3rd place if you are in the catchmnet area,followed by siblings, then any other child(of whatever religion or none) who wants a place. So, to answer your question all faith schools are by law required to have higher categories than actual faith in their admission criteria. This has not always been the case but it is now.

Hmmm, yes they take children from the catchment (funny enough house prices tend to be higher in such catchments so even this can be skewed)and then they select the children they want from the outer areas - based on their faith and thus excluding every other non catchment child.

Thus you have a higher level of privileged children and thus results will be higher. Not surprisingly, some attend church with the sole intention of getting their child into the better schools and this has now been clamped down on.

poet123

There really is no point in continuing the debate. You do not speak from PERSONAL experience but from hearsay. In reality by the time the 3rd cat has been reached,no places are available. So your point about out of catchment kids is not particularly relevant. I also reiterate that we do not ask for proof of practice of the faith,other areas may be different.

In my son's class there are Muslim kids,jewish kids,C of E,and children of no faith,in addition to RC children. Believe me taxpayers money is being well spent,our school is consistently in the top 10 in the UK,and is not in a particularly middle class area. I am sure that is of no comfort to you,but it is to the many parents of all denominations that have kids there.

So faith schools are now responsible for house price inflation too:rotfl:you do have a bee in your bonnet don't you?

Mumstheword

I think you are right poet, there really is no point in continuing this...erm....debate???

Based on your arguement, there are kids in third world countries who receive no education at all, so maybe we shouldnt even talk about the ed system over here as there are more pertinent issues to discuss.

As bestpud has said, if you think it is fair to allow those of faith more state funded choice then say so. Can you not discuss a point without telling everyone else what they ought to be discussing instead?

You have been repeated rude and patronising in this thread, and have made assumptions about me (most of which so far are wrong), in a weak attempt to goad me into your arguement.

And yes, good schools do indeed contribute to house price inflation!

How dare you suggest that bestpud cant have a valid point and speaks from hearsay. You have failed to provide any back up for your 'facts' whereas bestpud has expressed an opinion, to which we are all entitled.

There will be figures kept re how many kids are accepted based on the criteria set for each year of each school. If you want to use that as an argument, then go find some back up and maybe you will receive more credit for your views. Why should anyone believe that you know the facts based on your experience of one faith school?

If you think it's fair for faith schools to select, then express your views.
If you have evidence they dont select, then show us.

silvercar

May be better to look at why faith schools are so succesful and try to emulate those factors in non-faith schools, so we improve standards overall. Better than saying faith schools are good so they shouldn't be state funded, if that happened the gap between private and state schools would widen further.

Seems the green eyed monstor is talking. If I can't get my darling into the best schools then I will find a reason why they are wrong to receive state funding. "Oh look, a lot of the good schools are faith schools, so lets stop them." It is accepted, I hope, that faith schools aren't so successful because god is looking down on them and blowing good will in their direction; they are successful because their values/ education work. Spread the good work around, learn from other's success, rather than stop that success because it is not accessable to all.

nsp1274

I think you should all stop with this 'debate' about faith schools!

I can see how this subject has come about but it has nothing to do with the original post really.

So lets all calm down and agree to disagree??:D

Mumstheword

silvercar wrote: »

May be better to look at why faith schools are so succesful and try to emulate those factors in non-faith schools, so we improve standards overall.

absolutely agree:)

Better than saying faith schools are good so they shouldn't be state funded

oooo, no!! lol, I'm saying that they should follow the same entrance criteria as other state schools - ie, available to all, not favouring certain religions (either that, or self fund if they want to be selective:)). Nothing to do with whether they are good or not!:)

Mumstheword

nsp1274 wrote: »

So lets all calm down and agree to disagree??:D

I agree....or do I disagree?:D:D:D