Warning - SKY £75 Pay Once Watch Forever problems

NonGeographicalMan

adiohead wrote: »

still getting "no satellite signal" on FIVE, E4, E4+1, More4, FIVER, FIVER+1, FIVEusa & FIVEusa+1

but can get sky3 and more4+1 no problem.

looks like i'll have to call sky or the satellite fitter man.

The channels you can and can't receive make little sense as E4, E4+1 and More4 all broadcast on the harder to receive with a misaligned or obstructed dish Astra 2D satellite but Fiver, FiveUSA and their +1 variants are on one of the main Astra satellites that should be easy to receive in the UK even with a poorly aligned dish. However you can't receive them unless you have a viewing card that decrypts FTV channels. Out of interest can you get Zone Horror, Euronews, and Movies4Men, Movies4Men +1. Movies4Men2 and Movies4Men2+1 and World Movies? These will normally all disappear if you have a poorly aligned dish as they are broadcast on the Eurobird satellite.

It seems you have tried everything else but before you get Sky to send out an installer make sure you get it agreed that this is a warranty call out and if necessary refer them to the Sky Pay Once Watch Forever warranty conditions in their Terms and Conditions for the product (i.e one year warranty on the equipment from install).

Ominously the https://www.freesatfromsky.co.uk URL now directs you to the main Sky customer products page where there is no longer any mention of Freesat From Sky. So it looks like they have withdrawn this FreesatFromSky and the basic Freeasat product. Or perhaps this is just another accidental little cockup by one of their members of web develeopment staff?;):rolleyes::mad:

adiohead

NonGeographicalMan wrote: »

The channels you can and can't receive make little sense as E4, E4+1 and More4 all broadcast on the harder to receive with a misaligned or obstructed dish Astra 2D satellite but Fiver, FiveUSA and their +1 variants are on one of the main Astra satellites that should be easy to receive in the UK even with a poorly aligned dish. However you can't receive them unless you have a viewing card that decrypts FTV channels. Out of interest can you get Zone Horror, Euronews, and Movies4Men, Movies4Men +1. Movies4Men2 and Movies4Men2+1 and World Movies? These will normally all disappear if you have a poorly aligned dish as they are broadcast on the Eurobird satellite.

think i can get all of the other channels (i'll check tonight).

i just tried the card in my parents sky box and it still gets FIVE, etc. so it's definitely the dish or the box.

It seems you have tried everything else but before you get Sky to send out an installer make sure you get it agreed that this is a warranty call out and if necessary refer them to the Sky Pay Once Watch Forever warranty conditions in their Terms and Conditions for the product (i.e one year warranty on the equipment from install).

Ominously the www.freesatfromsky.co.uk URL now directs you to the main Sky customer products page where there is no longer any mention of Freesat From Sky. So it looks like they have withdrawn this FreesatFromSky and the basic Freeasat product. Or perhaps this is just another accidental little cockup by one of their members of web develeopment staff?;):rolleyes::mad:

thanks, i'll make sure they don't scam me or try and get me to pay any extra.

the dish isn't sky property so i'll probably have to get the private installer out to sort it.

i have read on avforums that some other people were having the same issue back in May. some people sorted it with a reset but others didn't.

will report back

harz99

Bump, what happened adiohead?

adiohead

the satellite dish installer is going to have a look at the signal, but they havn't had any other reports from the other people who share the dish.

if it's not the signal then i'm going to have to get a replacement box from sky.

glad i told the woman at sky that i wouldn't be paying the £20 she asked for.

NonGeographicalMan

This is a warning to all you Sky Pay Once Watch Forever customers that Sky are at it again and now plan to try and wriggle out of the clearly stated terms and conditions of this product (that appeared for many months on the www.freesatfromsky.co.uk website) indicating that it would replace the viewing cards for free if necessary at any time in the first five years.

Then if you visit the replacement viewing card part of the Sky website at https://mysky.sky.com/replacecard/home you will note it instead says that:-

If you bought a Sky box or viewing card only from Freesat from Sky after 1st May 2006 then you are eligible for a free card. If not, you can purchase a replacement card.

But if you enter your FreesatFromSky viewing card number as I did for my mother's you then find that Sky demand £20 for a replacement even though you clearly qualify under both the 1st May 2006 and last five years installation date rules.

So as usual Sky is trying to renege on its terms and condition to pump unwary customers for yet more money. Yet if you don't pay them the money or kick up a fuss to get the new viewing card without paying a fee then you risk losing reception of Five, Fiver, FiveUSA, Sky Three and Setanta Sports News as of 1st October.............

Here is the letter I sent to Jeremy Darroch, Sky's CEO, about this matter:-

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Original Message

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Subject: Sky In Breach of Terms & Conditions re Pay Once Watch Forever Viewing Card Replacement
Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 01:48:39 +0100
To: [EMAIL="jeremy.darroch@bskyb.comCC"]jeremy.darroch@bskyb.comCC[/EMAIL]: [EMAIL="andrew.griffith@bskyb.com"]andrew.griffith@bskyb.com[/EMAIL], [EMAIL="robert.fraser@bskyb.com"]robert.fraser@bskyb.com[/EMAIL], [EMAIL="CRsupport@bskyb.comRef"]CRsupport@bskyb.com[/EMAIL]

Dear Mr Darroch,

Sky In Breach of Terms & Conditions re Free Replacement For The First Five Years of Sky Pay Once Watch Forever Viewing Card - Smart Card Number XXX XXX XXX

Once again I am forced to write to you to complain about your organisation's repeated and quite deplorable failures to honour and adhere to the clearly advertised terms and conditions of your Sky Pay Once Watch Forever product.

In this case I am writing in connection with my mother's (____________) Sky Pay Once Watch Forever service that I purchased for her as a birthday present and which was installed by Sky in early November 2007. I was previously forced to write to you about that installation to ensure that she did not enter in to an ongoing subscription contract after the end of the included 6 months free viewing period for 2 Sky Mixes.

However on this occasion I am now writing to you in connection with the current replacement program for the old yellow house (on blue background) Sky viewing card series where I had naturally assumed that Sky would honour the clearly stated terms and conditions of the Sky Pay Once Watch Forever product that appeared on the www.freesatfromsky.co.uk website for many months and that stated:-

Equipment: You can receive a free standard Sky box without subscribing to Sky digital or taking up this pack. Sky selects your equipment. Free Sky box must be connected to a telephone line for 12 months. Warranty is against faults arising in first 12 months and does not affect your statutory rights. Charges may apply after end of warranty period. If we re-issue viewing cards within 5 years, replacements supplied free of charge, otherwise charges may apply.

But on its current website area for the replacement of Sky viewing cards for owners of Sky boxes who do not currently subscribe to Sky at https://mysky.sky.com/replacecard/get-a-card it then states "If you bought a Sky box or viewing card only from Freesat from Sky after 1st May 2006 then you are eligible for a free card, if not, you can purchase a replacement card." And given that Sky Pay Once Watch Forever was advertised as one of two choices on the www.freesatfromsky.co.uk website for many months it clearly was part of the Freesat From Sky product Range (particularly in the case of customers who did not take up the offer to become paying subscribers) and since my mother's Pay Once Watch Forever box was installed in November 2007 it clearly qualifies for a new viewing card free of charge either by virtue of being a Freesat From Sky product installed since May 2006 or by virtue of being a Sky Pay Once Watch Forever product installed within the last five years (as the Sky Pay Once Watch Forever Terms and Conditions clearly provided for card replacement in the first five years if required).

I note that Sky has now changed its Terms and Conditions for any new Freesat From Sky customers so that they will be charged for any replacement viewing card issued for any reason but as clearly acknowledged on your viewing card replacement website area that change is clearly not retroactive and does not apply to customers who had their Sky boxes and viewing cards provided at an earlier date. You can therefore imagine my surprise when on entering my mother's viewing card number on your replacement viewing card website I was told that a £20 fee needed to be paid, even though this contradicted the information given on the Home Page of the card replacement website area.

In the circumstances I therefore look forward to your confirmation that you will now be dispatching a replacement viewing card forthwith to my mother on a free of charge basis to her original installation address and I would be grateful if you can also comment on why Sky seems to find it so difficult to adhere to the Terms and Conditions it clearly entered in to with customers on its Pay Once Watch Forever product? Surely it amounts to a blatant attempt to mislead by Sky to market the product as being "Pay Once Watch Forever" only to try to charge a fee to continue watching one of the five main analogue terrestrial channels (Five) via a Sky satellite box some 21 months later. No doubt this will be attributed to just being another careless mistake by Sky but I find it extraordinary that a company of Sky's size and importance in the UK broadcasting marketplace so regularly makes such "mistakes" with so many of its customers.

Please not that I have spoken to my mother about this matter on the telephone and that she is content for me to act on her behalf as her agent to obtain the new replacement series viewing card that both of us naturally imagined would be sent out by Sky automatically without having to chase the company yet again to honour its stated terms and conditions.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

The_One_2

Excellent post there, i too have not received my new viewing card yet....although i dont know if my neighbours have either.

Keep us updated NGM

Thanks

NonGeographicalMan

The_One wrote: »

Excellent post

Keep us updated NGM

Many thanks for your kind comments The One but I notice that you seem to have possibly had some difficulty in locating the Thanks button in this thread to also convey the same sentiments via that means too.;):D

Regarding replacement viewing cards you should try entering your current viewing card number on the Sky replacement viewing card website that I provided the link for in my previous post but assuming that Sky then tell you that they are demanding £20 from you for the privilege then your next port of call will be an email to a certain jeremy.darroch@bskyb.com with cc to crsupport@bsksyb.com

The_One_2

Passed on my sentiments to you.......

and now for Sky !!!....yep the website says i need to pay £20, i only had mine installed back in April !!!!! So i have sent them an email similar to yours. Will report back here when i get a reply

Thanks

geebet

Have a question. If you keep Sky after your free 4 months, are you legally bound in to a 12 month contract thereafter?

I can't seem to find any thing about this on the box. I phoned up sky a couple of months ago and was told my account was cancelled, but now after cancelling my Direct Debit, I'm told I'm in a 12 month contract!?

NonGeographicalMan

geebet wrote: »

Have a question. If you keep Sky after your free 4 months, are you legally bound in to a 12 month contract thereafter?

I can't seem to find any thing about this on the box. I phoned up sky a couple of months ago and was told my account was cancelled, but now after cancelling my Direct Debit, I'm told I'm in a 12 month contract!?

In the below Sky Pay Once Watch Forever Terms and Conditions Sky explicitly say "After the first 4 months you will continue to receive Sky TV and will be charged a monthly subscription charge. You will not be bound by a 12 month minimum term, and you can cancel your subscription on 30 days' notice (and keep your equipment)"

So the definitive answer is that you can cancel on 30 days notice if you carry on subscribing after the first four free months just like a normal Sky customer can after their first 12 pay subscription months. You can then resubscribe to Sky again for a minimum of 30 days at any time and can give 30 days notice to leave Sky at any point from day 1 of your resubscription to Sky.

Unfortunately Sky's customer service staff have not been properly trained to cope with this particular product and only seem to expect all their subscription products to involve a 12 months minimum subscription. They may well therefore incorrectly suggest that you have to go on paying a subscription for another 8 or even 12 months before you can unsubscribe if you do not cancel before the 4 months are up.

If you run in to this problem send an email to [EMAIL="jeremy.darroch@bskyb.com"]jeremy.darroch@bskyb.com[/EMAIL] (Sky ceo) with cc to [EMAIL="andrew.griffith@bskyb.com"]andrew.griffith@bskyb.com[/EMAIL] (finance director and only other executive director of Sky) and cc to [EMAIL="crsupport@bskyb.com"]crsupport@bskyb.com[/EMAIL] with a copy of the below terms and conditions explaining why Sky are not honouring your right to cancel at any time on giving 30 days notice under their own Terms and Conditions for this product. Put "Sky Failing to Honour Pay Once Watch Forever Terms and Conditions" or similar in the subject line of your email to make sure it receives appropriate attention"

Sky Prepay - Pay Once, Watch Forever:

Included in the Box: Unique reference number, phone number and instructions to call Sky to arrange your installation. No need to upgrade your aerial Total Package Includes: Sky box, minidish and remote control, 4 months access to Sky TV, standard Sky professional installation and set-up No Monthly Fee for the First 4 Months: No annual contract or subscription if you choose to cancel at the end of 4 months. At the end of the first 4 months, you will continue to pay the current price for the four Entertainment Mixes unless you call Sky to opt out before the end of the 4 months Variety Mix: Catch the best US and home-grown dramas, old classics and top comedies on channels including E4, Sky One and UKTV Drama Knowledge Mix: Whether it's the planet, people or history, this mix has it all, with great channels such as Discovery, National Geographic and Animal Planet News Mix Latest News: Sports and weather reports with 24 hour coverage from leading news channels, including Sky News, British Eurosport and Fox News Style & Culture Mix: From food to fashion, travel and the arts, there are channels for every lifestyle including Sky Arts, UKTV Style and Discovery Real Time Standard Installation Included: Non-standard installation costs extra. You must get any consents required (e.g. landlord's) Offer Only Available to New Sky Digital Customers: Not available for customers who have not previously entered into an Interactive Discount Contract or a Sky TV Month by Month equipment offer or whose household has benefited from either Please Note: Offer limited to 1 per household BBC Channels: BBC channels are available as part of your licence fee. The free channels are those available on the digital satellite platform from time to time, many of which are provided by third party broadcasters. Sky cannot guarantee the availability or content of such channels Free Standard Sky Box: You can receive a free standard Sky box without subscribing to Sky digital or taking up this pack. Sky selects your equipment. Free Sky box must be connected to a telephone line for 12 months. Warranty is against faults arising in first 12 months and does not affect your statutory rights. Charges may apply after end of warranty period. If we re-issue viewing cards within 5 years, replacements supplied free of charge, otherwise charges may apply Sky News: Sky News is available without a subscription. Prices/channels/programmes subject to change. You must be18 or over. Information only applies to customers in the UK, Channel Islands and Isle of Man. Calls to Sky cost up to 8 pence per minute plus a 6p connection fee for BT customers. Payment: Customers require credit card or Direct Debit details to use this package. Customers must have these to hand when they call Sky, which allows you to order Pay Per View movies and events and continue to watch Sky TV at the end of your 4 months Subscription: After the first 4 months you will continue to receive Sky TV and will be charged a monthly subscription charge. You will not be bound by a 12 month minimum term, and you can cancel your subscription on 30 days' notice (and keep your equipment).

If you only want to receive the free digital channels then you should contact Sky before the end of the four months