London Bombings - Profit oppertunity from the misery of others

IvanOpinion

I guess it holds true that they are damned if they do and they are damned if they don't. I think people really need to get a little bit of perspective here ... there was a bomb in London, many people wer killed and many more were injured ... and the best we can do is complain about an 0870 number? SO WHAT? If I had a loved one that may have been caught up in the blast the cost of a phone call is irrelevant - would you complain if the police told you that you had to drive to the nearest police station to get information (10p would have got you about 1/4mile).

I agree with the campaign against 0870 but in this case I think some people have got so involved in this campaign that they forget that in this case it actually involved genuine real people concerned about their loved ones who themselves were genuine real people. I wonder how many people that actually had a loved one caught up in this gives a rats !!!!!! that it cost them a few pence ... I am pretty sure it is the last thing on their mind.

So before jumping on the 0870 high-horse again ... try to put it into a bit of perspective .. those that needed to care didn't and those that don't need to care do???

Ivan

1connect

IvanOpinion wrote:

I guess it holds true that they are damned if they do and they are damned if they don't. I think people really need to get a little bit of perspective here ... there was a bomb in London, many people wer killed and many more were injured ... and the best we can do is complain about an 0870 number? SO WHAT? If I had a loved one that may have been caught up in the blast the cost of a phone call is irrelevant - would you complain if the police told you that you had to drive to the nearest police station to get information (10p would have got you about 1/4mile).

I agree with the campaign against 0870 but in this case I think some people have got so involved in this campaign that they forget that in this case it actually involved genuine real people concerned about their loved ones who themselves were genuine real people. I wonder how many people that actually had a loved one caught up in this gives a rats !!!!!! that it cost them a few pence ... I am pretty sure it is the last thing on their mind.

So before jumping on the 0870 high-horse again ... try to put it into a bit of perspective .. those that needed to care didn't and those that don't need to care do???

Ivan

You are making a point that has already been made, which is rather pointless, particularly when you are missing the core issue anyway,
this post did not ask "hands up everyone that doesn’t care about 9p per minute in the light of such an event when you have missing relatives" I mean DERRR... who would care in those circumstances ... not exactly rocket science that is it?
It also did not say "whoopee now I have a good excuse for an anti 0870 campaign" now please make stupid comments...
what it actually asked was "is it right for anyone to cash in under such circumstances" and clearly the head of the met and Scotland yard think not as they have released more appropriate numbers since... these are people that actually matter, along with the victims families, and you seem to be posting as some kind of self appointed spokesman on their behalf which I find rather arrogant of you and slightly sickening, and in any case as you are not (by you own admission) a relative or friend of a victim your opinion doesn’t count for anything as your premise is hypothetical and therefore irrelevant.

The only person mounting a high horse is you, and you mount it with a pretty sh*tty attitude and a rather arrogant stance, so I think you will find the only people not giving a rats !!!!!! are the people who reading your idiotic post.

pricefighter

IO. Apart from the very important cost to ring them factor(especially from a payphone or mobile) ,the 0870 campaigners were pointing out that you could not always access these numbers from abroad!!! How would you like it if you could not have got through in these circumstances.

Also whoever decided to use 0870 has blatantly disregarded the ASA ruling that the true cost of the call should be indicated when the number is displayed,and has not adhered to the COI advice about using 0870 numbers on helplines.

IvanOpinion

1connect wrote:

You are making a point that has already been made, which is rather pointless, particularly when you are missing the core issue anyway,
this post did not ask "hands up everyone that doesn’t care about 9p per minute in the light of such an event when you have missing relatives" I mean DERRR... who would care in those circumstances ... not exactly rocket science that is it?
It also did not say "whoopee now I have a good excuse for an anti 0870 campaign" now please make stupid comments...
what it actually asked was "is it right for anyone to cash in under such circumstances" and clearly the head of the met and Scotland yard think not as they have released more appropriate numbers since... these are people that actually matter, along with the victims families, and you seem to be posting as some kind of self appointed spokesman on their behalf which I find rather arrogant of you and slightly sickening, and in any case as you are not (by you own admission) a relative or friend of a victim your opinion doesn’t count for anything as your premise is hypothetical and therefore irrelevant.

The only person mounting a high horse is you, and you mount it with a pretty sh*tty attitude and a rather arrogant stance, so I think you will find the only people not giving a rats !!!!!! are the people who reading your idiotic post.

Do you feel better for that ... you haven't burst a blood vessel by any chance ... I think somebodies patch must have fallen off. Anyhows thank you for giving me a good laugh to start my day off.

This is a typical example of what I have talked about many times people jump on a 'cause' or a 'bandwagon' and the only thing guaranteed when a 'cause' is involved is that common sense has been and gone. The perspective, which is obvious, 'DERRR' (excuse me for quoting your wonderful thought provking argument) is that poeple have lost their lives and the only thing some people are worried about is the cost of a phone call. If anyone posting on this thread has any direct relationship with the 'saynoto0870' website then that would be really sickening, and nothing more than arrogant self promotion (I really hope that is not the case because it would badly blacken the name of an otherwise useful campaign).

As of yet NOBODY has proved anybody has cashed in (w.r.t. cost of phone call). I notice you have not yet condemned the bombers or shown any concern for those losing their lives, the only thing that you have said is 'distastefull insensetive and pretty disgusting' is the use of an 0870 number (I am however guessing that this is probably nothing more than a simple oversight on your part).

I dared to question whether or not it was relevant ... which, in my opinion it isn't ... however if you think equating the cost of a phone call to someone trying to find out about their loved ones is relevant then that is your opinion ... live with it, but accept that not everybody is going to necessarily agree with you!. I just find it sad that this is the first thing some people think about in the face of a disaster.

So before you get all snooty with your next tirade of irrelevant abuse remember you did ask '...is it just me - or is this totaly out of order?' .. you wanted discusion ... or did you just want people to agree with you?


Ivan

spiderplantman_2

IvanOpinion wrote:

As of yet NOBODY has proved anybody has cashed in (w.r.t. cost of phone call)Ivan

So Cable and Wireless provided the number for nothing did they,and they will be returning any profit from the calls i doubtit.

Of course any normal Human Being condems these actions,but it doesnt mean they should accept bad practice.

Incidentally would it not help your side of the argument if you toned things down a bit instead of talking down to people.

IvanOpinion

spiderplantman wrote:

So Cable and Wireless provided the number for nothing did they,and they will be returning any profit from the calls i doubtit.

It does not mean they made a profit out of it .. there is a difference. Inevitably during any period like this phone lines get jammed - yet I haven't heard of anybody complaining about the additional profits phone companies will have made because of the thousands additional calls that were made - should be people be entitled to claim a refund because they were contacting friends and neighbours? I still think that in the overall bigger picture 0870 is irrelevant.

Of course any normal Human Being condems these actions,but it doesnt mean they should accept bad practice.

I think getting a helpline up and running as quickly as they did is not bad practice. Also remember on the day there were many hoax bomb warnings (several people are already appearing in court).

Incidentally would it not help your side of the argument if you toned things down a bit instead of talking down to people.

Its easy to do that from my high horse .. please remember I was not the one that was abusive .. the OP asked for discussion but obviously only wanted a load of 'yes men' to answer.

Ivan

IvanOpinion

pricefighter wrote:

IO. Apart from the very important cost to ring them factor(especially from a payphone or mobile) ,the 0870 campaigners were pointing out that you could not always access these numbers from abroad!!! How would you like it if you could not have got through in these circumstances.

Also whoever decided to use 0870 has blatantly disregarded the ASA ruling that the true cost of the call should be indicated when the number is displayed,and has not adhered to the COI advice about using 0870 numbers on helplines.

Finally an intelligent argument not driven from the money point of view. Excellent points, however if you were abroad could you maybe have contacted the embassy or other family members? Is it possible that to get something up and running quickly and effectively 0870 was the only way of doing it ? I am asking out of interest ... I don't know.

I am totally FOR the 0870 campaign ... I just think that in this case there are much more important issues.

Ivan

bbb_uk

Hi all,

I started to write a reply to the thread here but it turned out to be more of a rant than a reply so I decided to post it here instead to save a mod doing it for me. lol.

Here is my rant and what I was replying to (taken from the post in the link above):-

bunking_off wrote:

....It's worthy of note that the 020 number was released only when call volumes had subsided, so the general Met switchboard could cope....

That is not true. The Met only released the 020 number because of the loads of complaints it had received from me and other people on the saynoto0870.com and the fact that the Met were informed that the papers were going to run a story on the their use of 0870 and the cost of such calls, etc. Only after all this did The Met release an 020 number.

As Pricefighter has said, the ASA have ruled that costs to these numbers should be quoted as most people are still under the impression that it is a national rate number when in fact it isn't and hasn't been for over a year.

Did you know that it can cost upto around 35ppm to call this number from a mobile and that people calling from outside the UK may not be able to call 0845/0870 numbers?

Why is it in the USA they released a freephone number for USA residents to ring if they had loved ones, etc in London at the time and yet our own government releases a 0870 number and doesn't inform anyone (disobeying ASA rules) of the cost of these calls.

The Met and other companies using these numbers are gaining from their use and yet still insist that these calls to 0845/0870 are local rate or national rate. I was in CPW a while ago and was given their 0870 number for me to ring. The sales assistant asked why and I said that its because of the cost of these calls to me and he tried to tell me it was local rate (yes local rate). I said no its not as it costs nearly 8ppm from a landline and even more from most other networks. I then told him it didn't matter and I would take my business elsewhere he then proceeded (obviously reluctantly) to give me their geographical number.

OfCOM is saying that companies operating 0870 benefit us as it then makes their product cheaper due to the costs being subsidised from these 0870 numbers. I have yet to see a company sell a product cheaper (in anyway what so ever) and it was because they now make money from people calling them so they can afford to sell it to us cheaper - all that happens is that their profit margins increase.

At the end of the day, these companies using 0870 are praying on the fact that most people (their customers) are not aware of the real costs involved and that they may a profit from people calling them.

They are in fact premium rate numbers in disguise. Everyone knows a premium rate number costs so much and that the person calling them makes a profit from such call but was is important to note is that companies operating premium rate numbers are not allowed to keep people in a queue. Now these companies using 0870 to gain a profit and lying about (or not publishing the cost) of these calls (ie it is not local rate or national rate).

What's the difference between a company using 0870 that can cost upto 8ppm for us to call or one operating a premium rate number that can cost the same? The difference to these companies is that they use an 0870 so that they can keep us in a queue and they don't tell us how much calls cost and more importingly that they are gaining revenue from it and most of us are unaware that they do actually profit from it.

Whereas, a premium rate number costing the same to us would mean these companies know they would hardly get any business because most people are aware of the costs (and know the company makes a profit) from such premium rate numbers.

They are profiting from most peoples lack of knowledge of the true cost of these calls and that calling them provides the company with revenue.

How about this example:-

Two identical businesses in direct competition with each other and offer the exact same product, etc. Both operate 0870 numbers. The difference being is that one company is completely honest and informs users of the true cost of these calls and that they are gaining revenue from it, the other company remain silent on the cost of such calls and more importingly remain silent on the fact they are gaining revenue from it.

Taking into consideration that most people right now are unaware of the true costs of calling these numbers and the fact they get revenue from such calls, but obviously the company that has remained silent on these calls and its revenue is likely to gain more customers because it effectively is (directly or indirectly) lying about such call costs and the revenue gained from it.

All this comes down to OfCOM. If they were to make companies inform us public of the true cost of these calls and the fact that they gain revenue from it, just how many companies would then go back to publishing their geographical number?

I have to apologise for this very long rant but I hate it when people knowingly rob other people and play on the fact of their lack of knowledge..

OK - I feel better now. lol

trace-j

Nile wrote:

Shame on them.:mad:


It is a pity that we can't have a 'Name & Shame' list of those London hotels who increased their room prices yesterday. I'm sure that foreign visitors, especially from the USA, would vote with their feet and avoid these shameful hotels.

Yeah, I was in the Ramada hotel from the 6-8th July nr Lords Cricket ground in London. I was there on a works training thing, so I didn't have to pay for a room. The rack rate for a bog standard room was £199. On Thursday (7th) night this went up to £250 when more and more people wanted to find a hotel room as they couldnt get home.

That said, I also saw 4 London Underground Managers (in imaculate suites) in the hotel late Thurs night, obviously after a pretty sh***y day. I wont gripe at the fact that the cost of the 4 rooms wasn't paid for by them individually. I was pretty offended at the fact they felt the need to walk around with hi-visiability vests donning the London Underground logo, to make known where they work. In fact the hi-vis vests were immaculately clean and you can see where the creases were from it being unfolded as just out of the bag. Whilst these Mangers were happy to get some sort of Kudos, I couldn't help wonder what support the Underground Staff got to get home that night.

trisontana

This is a from the Daily Mail's "This is Money" web-site :-

"Cable & Wireless last night admitted that 'mistakes had been made', but blamed the Governmentfunded Police Information Technology Organisation (PITO) for leaving it with no alternative but to charge for the calls.

A spokesman said: 'PITO was offered an 0800 number which would have been free for callers, and an 0845 number, which would have been less expensive, but PITO would then have had to cover our costs for running the line and they said they had no money for it.'

No one from PITO was available to comment. However, if it is correct that it did not have the funds to ensure a free hotline, the question arises as to why the Home Office did not come up with the money."