London Blasts 0870 'helpline' generates revenue for Met Police!

marvin · 8 July 2005 at 9:54PM

superfurry wrote:

This is crazy - what about using 0845 ??? Why do they want to make money,

0845 also make money for the holders of the number, just charges a little less to the user and makes less for the operator.

Of course for those of us with a all in phone contract it costs us money as non-geo's and mobiles are charged outside the deal.

A1ia5 · 8 July 2005 at 10:09PM

The congestion charge has been scrapped till monday - calls to the 0870 number should be reimbursed and policy should be set with respect to numbers to be used in incidents such as this

During the Tsunami some mobile phone campanies did not charge or reimbursed...

DonnyDave · 8 July 2005 at 10:27PM

Daniel has restored the original thread apart from Page 3 here.

CrazyChemist_2 · 8 July 2005 at 10:52PM

Thanks Dave!

bunking_off · 9 July 2005 at 11:13AM

marvin wrote:

0845 also make money for the holders of the number, just charges a little less to the user and makes less for the operator.

Incorrect (at least depending on how you define "operator" - if you mean the telephone company).

Margins for the telephone company for 0800, 0845 and 0870 are broadly in line. The originating telco collects the retail tariff, strips off a set (regulated in the case of BT) amount for originating the call, and passes on the remainder to the terminating telco. They strip off their margin, and the provider of the service gets what's left.

For 0800, that's clearly a negative amount, ie the service provider pays. For 0845, depending on the terminating telco, there may be a little left for the provider. For 0870, there's more left for the provider. However, given the markets for 0800/845/870 are broadly as competitive, the telcos make the same pence per minute from all the services (which, to be frank, is not much as it's a cut-throat business).

Benuk73 · 9 July 2005 at 9:48PM

CrazyChemist wrote:

0870 1566 344

This is the premium rate emergency helpline number issued to concerned friends/relatives of victims of the London Blasts yesterday.

However, this number generates revenue for the Metropolitan Police (or some other "beneficiary") for every incoming call, and charges up to 8p per minute, even more from payphones, for what is essentially a long wait, then a recorded message, before cutting you off! :mad:

Furthermore, 0870 numbers can't always be dialled from abroad, so this is not only a money-making scam at the expense of the London Blasts, but also terrible inconvenience for relatives/friends abroad. I quote from a post from SayNoT0870 which quotes from an OFCOM Source:

I understand that the Daily Telegraph is doing an article for tomorrow's (Saturday) issue about this. See this post from SAYNOTO0870.COM.

I wonder why an 0800 number wasn't used in this case?

Absolutly discraceful :eek: Talk about "Jumping on the Band Wagon!!"

missterryshopper · 10 July 2005 at 6:52AM

bunking_off wrote:

However, given the markets for 0800/845/870 are broadly as competitive, the telcos make the same pence per minute from all the services (which, to be frank, is not much as it's a cut-throat business).

My heart goes out to them (eg Cable and Wireless) the poor things.I hope they have the good sense to give the money they made out of this number to the disaster fund.

bunking_off · 10 July 2005 at 8:42AM

I've got mixed feelings on this, to be honest. My general view is that usage of 0870 by commercial companies is fair game (don't like it, use another company) while usage by the public sector is wrong. However, in this example, I'm not so sure. Let me explain...

First of all, consider the economics - appreciate this is distasteful given the loss of life, but it wasn't me that started the debate about call charges. On an 0870 number the provider of the "service" would get, say, 5ppm. That's £3/hr. Even allowing for 50% of callers giving up while they're in the queue, that's £6/hr/line. It costs considerably more than that to run a call-centre seat, so the first point to be made here is that we're not talking about profiteering : the more accurate debate is whether it's appropriate that the callers should have made a contribution towards paying for the calls to be answered. This is a question of ethics.

Now, moving onto another potential misapprehension. These calls are unlikely to have been answered by Met staff in their spare time. If we say 20k calls were made in the first hour, that implies something of the order of 1000-1500 call centre staff. The only way that would have been possible is via some form of Business Continuity organisation....and at that level of notice period some pretty fancy call distribution would be needed (*). Someone has to pay for these people to answer these calls. It's worthy of note that the 020 number was released only when call volumes had subsided, so the general Met switchboard could cope.

(*) Incidentally, I won't get into it here, but the way that the network routes 08 numbers is inherently more able to handle these type of focussed call events than the way that geo numbers are routed : that has nothing to do with the intelligent routing that's additionally provided on 08 services. If anyone does question this I can explain why.

So, we come down to four options of who pays for the calls to be answered. Either the caller pays, or it comes out of the Met budget, or the Government funds it....or someone does it for free.

I wouldn't discount the latter option, but would say that a time that everyone's business is in crisis, their priority has to be their own customers (e.g. I do know for a fact that C&W's premises were evacuated as they were within short distance of the bus bombing).

If it comes out of the Met budget there's less bobbies on the beat. If it comes out of general taxation, then something else has to give....or the callers end up paying for their call indirectly, via increased taxation. Believe the realiy is that we have a combination of the first 3 - the 0870 revenues won't cover the cost, some will fall to the Met, but the Met will inevitably be receiving more funds after these unfortunate events.

I'm not saying it's right that 0870 numbers were used. What I am saying is that I *can* see a reasonable argument to justify it. However, I'm sure that many will disagree.

pricefighter · 10 July 2005 at 9:09AM

Apart from the very important excessive cost factor(particularly if ringing from a payphone or mobile) the choice of a 0870 number by so called Telecom Experts was flawed because they failed to take account that you cannot always ring them from abroad.

They have also blatantly ignored the ASA ruling which says the real cost of calling these numbers most be shown against them,furthurmore they have disregarded the COI guidlines about the use of 0870 numbers numbers on helplines.
On top of that they still continue to promote the 0870 number alongside a geographical one for overseas callers.

Penny-Pincher!! · 10 July 2005 at 9:57AM

Hey There

TBH I would pay anything to call if my DD or DH had been involved and to check on their safety etc.

I noticed on Sky news that there were 2 phone numbers at the bottom of the page:

(1)An 0870 number-people looking for loved ones!
(2)An 0800 number-to report unusual activity/behaviour!

Why could'nt both numbers be free?

Penny-Pincher!!
XXX

London Blasts 0870 'helpline' generates revenue for Met Police!

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