Air Source Heat Pumps

fenlander

Hi, if Samtheman is still online , his post was 2007, does he have an updated version of his Mitsubishi HP and how would he assess a 2 bed bungalow for this installation ? would it be worth the cost and how come there were running costs ? I thought the whole point of this new technology was to get the sun the air the wind whatever to power the heat pump ? Old and confused !!!

robmiller85

The mitsubishi ecodan units are ideal for domestic applications and come in 5, 8.5 or 14KW models. They are all MSC accredited (apart from the 3-phase model) so are eligible for the Renewable Heat Incentive should it start as scheduled in April 2011.

The main thing to bear in mind with ASHPs is the flow temperature, particularly when using it for both Heating and DHW. If running the unit at a constant flow of 55c which is often needed in order to then boost your DHW cylinder upto 60c then you are not going to get a COP higher than 3 (300% efficiency) even in good conditions. As electricity is around 3 times more expensive than gas this would mean it is actually going to cost you more money to heat your hot water than it would using a conventional gas boiler. However if the unit was only feeding your heating system and the radiators or underfloor system was suitably sized, then flow temps as little as 35-40c can be achieved. Depending on outdoor conditions this could potentially give you efficencies of upto 600% and save you a lot of money. It's finding that balance which would depend if the system is worthwhile installing.

richardc1983

robmiller85 wrote: »

The main thing to bear in mind with ASHPs is the flow temperature, particularly when using it for both Heating and DHW. If running the unit at a constant flow of 55c which is often needed in order to then boost your DHW cylinder upto 60c.

Good post and I have thanked you for it however I must correct you on this bit quoted.

The hot water is boosted automatically to 65C once a week to sanitise it.

You can adjust your hot tank water temperature separately like you cant the flow temp for the heating circuit.

It does not heat the hot water and provide heating at the same time so this way you can keep the flow temp low all the time as the hot water is heated separatly, not both at once.

albyota

robmiller85 wrote: »

The mitsubishi ecodan units are ideal for domestic applications and come in 5, 8.5 or 14KW models. They are all MSC accredited (apart from the 3-phase model) so are eligible for the Renewable Heat Incentive should it start as scheduled in April 2011.

The main thing to bear in mind with ASHPs is the flow temperature, particularly when using it for both Heating and DHW. If running the unit at a constant flow of 55c which is often needed in order to then boost your DHW cylinder upto 60c then you are not going to get a COP higher than 3 (300% efficiency) even in good conditions. As electricity is around 3 times more expensive than gas this would mean it is actually going to cost you more money to heat your hot water than it would using a conventional gas boiler. However if the unit was only feeding your heating system and the radiators or underfloor system was suitably sized, then flow temps as little as 35-40c can be achieved. Depending on outdoor conditions this could potentially give you efficencies of upto 600% and save you a lot of money. It's finding that balance which would depend if the system is worthwhile installing.

I think you are misleading people with stating efficiencies of upto 600%.

The annual seasonal COP, (Coefficient of performance) is still good at 320% so why the need to over-exagerate?

At the moment while mains gas is still quite cheap, it is not really a viable solution.....much better savings can be made from replacing with a new condensing gas boiler......however, people who use LPG or oil boilers are much more likely to make savings, as well as getting out of contracts or the inconvenience of running out and having to pay premium rates for top up.

The system can produce ample domestic hot water if the cylinder is sized correctly, it only needs to be boosted once per week to 65 degrees for an hour or so......about 30 odd pence.

If radiators are sized correctly, you can run the system on the ECO setting between 45 & 50 for 95% of the winter and switch to boost at 55 for the colder weeks.

come on don't give ASHP's a bad reputation. they work without the silly exageration.

Thanks

richardc1983

This is a very good system that does heating/cooling at the same time as air conditioning.

http://freedomhp.co.uk/resources/8P_English_Final%20EHS%20(Brochure).pdf

Cardew

robmiller85 wrote: »

Depending on outdoor conditions this could potentially give you efficencies of upto 600% and save you a lot of money. It's finding that balance which would depend if the system is worthwhile installing.

Any advance on a COP of 6;)

Hey even with the outside temp at 30C and used to heat water for a swimming pool at 32C you ain't going to get a COP of 6.

If you get a year round COP in the region of 3 it will be good.

albyota

Hi richardc1983, although this is Samsung's offering and looks to be a good system, it is not yet on the MCS list, and with Hitachi's Aquafree.....already MCS accredited, and with LG's Therma V (very good kit), Panasonic's Aquarea, Toshiba's Estia, Glow-worms Clearly, etc..etc...etc...(30 other manufacturers) closely on its tail, I think it will have to pitch its price very low to claim any market share.

richardc1983

albyota wrote: »

Hi richardc1983, although this is Samsung's offering and looks to be a good system, it is not yet on the MCS list, and with Hitachi's Aquafree.....already MCS accredited, and with LG's Therma V (very good kit), Panasonic's Aquarea, Toshiba's Estia, Glow-worms Clearly, etc..etc...etc...(30 other manufacturers) closely on its tail, I think it will have to pitch its price very low to claim any market share.

I havent looked into prices... just features... does look a good system.

Not aware if the others can do heating and cooling at the same time? Do you know?

albyota

If any one needs any proof, here is a list of air to water heat pump manufacturers systems......

• Mitsubishi Ecodan
• Daikin Altherma
• Sanyo ECO
• CTC Ecoair
• LG Therma V
• Panasonic Aquarea
• Toshiba Estia
• Samsung EHS
• Fujitsu Waterstage
• Nibe Fighter
• Calorex Heatseeker AW 9000
• TEV Heatking Bwarm
• Worcester bosch Greensource
• Vaillant Glow-worm Clearly Heat Pump
• Dimplex LA series K,M,10M,MS,AS,TU,PS,HS
• Danfoss DHP A/AL / Opti DHP AX
• IVT Optima
• ICS De Longi Climaventa - Bran H
• Glow Worm Clearly Heat pump by Vaillant
• Grant Aerona
• Hitachi Yutaki / Aquafree
• Vokera Aria
• Veissman Vitocal 350-A
• Trianco Activair - company gone into liquidation
• NuHeat / Nibe Model 2005
• Thermia Atria / Atria Duo
• Baxi Ambiflow
• Steibel Eltron WPL 10 ACS
• Heat and Save AQUALTHERMA TRIAQUA, Eco Warrior
• EcoAirPump EAP10.5-XS / 13XS / 18DS
• Keston AirGen

albyota

Rich, I don't see how the Samsung can heat and cool simultaneously, from what I can gather it can heat..... with air to air.....via wall mounts..... and....... air to water at the same time. The main use for the TDM is for Spring/Autumn which allows the wall mounts to heat the air quickly while UFH is still getting up to temperature, whereas the wall mounts can be used for cooling in the summer....saves having a seperate outdoor unit.