Air Source Heat Pumps

jules2

Many thanks for your speedy response Cardew. Will continue to investigate.

albyota

Cardew.....says..

"The downside of ASHPs are that they don't have a huge output so won't give you the instant heating you require."

You don't operate them the same as normal heating systems.....they are at their most efficient when left on at low temperatures and by using night set back or multi channel time control


"water does not get that hot in radiators and they are well suited to underfloor heating".

With a correctly sized system, with properly calculated size of radiator you will heat the room to your required temperature i.e. 23/25 degrees

A 600mm x 1000mm radiator can be single panel, P1, single with convector P+, double panel with single convectorK1, and a double panel double convector K2…. It’s the same physical size…just a bit thicker but will give out 3 times as much heat as a single panel radiator


"If you need Instant heat in one room you can always use a 'normal' heater to boost until the ASHP has brought it up to temperature".

Yes but that "Instant” Heater (electric) is expensive to run,

"Most ASHP systems do not provide very hot water for showers and you need to boost occasionally with an immersion heater".

An ASHP has to follow strict regulations to be able to comply with British standards, EN ruling etc.. Most of the better systems, the water is heated to 58 degrees to heat water in the cylinder within 50 minutes, the temperature of your shower should never be above 42 degrees (you will start to go very pink) most thermostatic shower valves are restricted at 38....the only reason stored water needs to be over 65 degrees is to kill off legionella. This is done once a week by the immersion heater via timeclock set to lift from 55 to 65 degrees, a 10 degree difference.

ASHP Manufacturers – (air to water), Worcester Bosch, Dimplex, Danfoss, Nibe, Mitsubishi, Daikin, Sanyo, Toshiba, Heatking, Veissmann, Activair, Thermia, Hitachi, Ciat, L.G. Calorex, Trianco,

Andy_WSM

Cardew wrote: »

Welcome to the forum.

I don't know that ASHPs are greener other than they use less electricity.

The downside of ASHPs are that they don't have a huge output so won't give you the instant heating you require. The water does not get that hot in radiators and they are well suited to underfloor heating. If you need Instant heat in one room you can always use a 'normal' heater to boost until the ASHP has brought it up to temperature.

Most ASHP systems do not provide very hot water for showers and you need to boost occasionally with an immersion heater.

An ASHP is still a lot better than storage heating IMO, however like most things in life - it is a compromise.

I have an Activair air source pump and it does the job of heating perfectly well. They are not designed for "instant heat" though, and you'll need to allow an extra half hour warm up time in the mornings (no big deal?) The radiators run at 50C, as does the Hot Water, which is actually too hot for showering and is mixed down with cold. I didn't resize my radiators, I just let the system run for a little longer - it still does the job and for a few pence extra per day running costs I didn't have £hundreds additional outlay.

The system has been in for coming up to a year now and has been both faultless and very cheap to run.

samtheman1k

What system provides 'instant' heat? Every system needs time to warm the house up, except maybe if you had an industrial heater in your lounge!

ASHPs don't require any extra time to warm the house up than a GCH will, that is why you oversize your radiators to get the same heat output from a ASHP system & thus heats the room up in the same time...

albyota

These statements may help people decide sooner or later....."

The French president told a sceptical public that his "fiscal revolution" - a new levy on oil, gas and coal consumption by households and businesses – would come into effect next year and would encourage people to use less fuel.
Long a laggard on the ecological front, France hopes the new announcement will boost its green credentials ahead of the United Nations conference on climate change in Copenhagen in December, in which nations will try to thrash out a deal to cut carbon emissions.
Three quarters of the French population are against the new tax, according to one poll. A political analyst, Dominique Reyni!, said they doubt whether a unilateral levy will make any difference to global carbon emissions.
But Mr Sarkozy suggested France must show Europe and the world the way."

AND.....

Ed Miliband, the Energy and Climate Change Secretary, is (Feb 09) expected to announce a raft of new legislation to help the UK meet ambitious climate change targets to cut carbon emissions.
The biggest investment will be in power, with more renewables like wind farms and a new generation of nuclear power stations replacing "dirty" but cheap fossil fuels like gas and coal.

Related Articles

• Council areas fail to cut carbon footprint

However the cost to energy companies will be passed on to the consumer and bills are expected to go up by as much as £230 per annum, prompting concerns about fuel poverty.
To counteract the cost, Mr Miliband will announce a number of new schemes to help households install "energy efficiency measures" such as smart metres, underfloor insulation and new boilers.
However campaigners fear there will be a "stick" with the carrot and households that fail to install the new green measures may face a rise in stamp duty or higher council tax bills. There were also doubts the measures will be introduced in time to stop vulnerable households being affected and the Tories criticised the Government for failing to bring in energy saving measures sooner.
The UK Low Carbon Transition Plan, an energy and climate change white paper, will set out how the UK Government will meet its target to cut greenhouse gas emissions by 34 per cent by 2020 in a range of sectors including energy, agriculture, homes and workplaces.
Among the schemes which will help households cut energy use are:
:: Pay as you Save: Up to £5 billion will be made available to all households to fit energy efficiency measures like double glazing. Because the energy efficiency measures will cut bills, the Government says the extra costs - to be levied on the bills - will be absorbed over time and ultimately result in a saving.
:: Clean Energy Cashback: A "feed in tariff" will pay households for feeding energy back into the grid from micro-renewables like wind turbines. Households could earn hundreds of pounds every year. For example although it costs around £15,000 to install solar PV panels householders could earn between £800 and £2,500 per annum back from the grid.
:: Smart Metres: Every household will have a "smart" metre from the energy companies by 2020 that will tell consumers how much electricity is being used by each appliance and therefore help to make savings.

Andy_WSM

If only the statements were accurate!

:: Clean Energy Cashback: A "feed in tariff" will pay households for feeding energy back into the grid from micro-renewables like wind turbines. Households could earn hundreds of pounds every year. For example although it costs around £15,000 to install solar PV panels householders could earn between £800 and £2,500 per annum back from the grid.
:: Smart Metres: Every household will have a "smart" metre from the energy companies by 2020 that will tell consumers how much electricity is being used by each appliance and therefore help to make savings.

I have yet to see a Solar array for £15K that could provide up to £2.5K a year return (at current prices of course).

Smart meters will let you see how much your household is consuming, but not individual appliances. Some of us have had the consumer equivalent for some time and already do all we can to reduce consumption.

I have already taken all the energy efficiency measures I can, including installing an Air Source Heat Pump - - non of the governments "carrots" will be any good to me, yet I will end up paying more so that everyone else is encouraged to use less!

We're going to be taxed into sitting in the dark soon, rocking back and forth to keep warm

samtheman1k

I agree with that. I installed an ASHP, insulation, DG etc etc etc based pretty much purely on financial reasons, i.e.. lower running costs...none of these government grants, incentive etcs were applicable to me, i.e., not on benefits, not going with an 'official installer'...

I don't want to pay for other peoples' latency...why don't people realise that there is already a carrot incentive, and that is the lower running costs!!!

tpresto3

albyota wrote: »

Cardew.....says..

"The downside of ASHPs are that they don't have a huge output so won't give you the instant heating you require."

You don't operate them the same as normal heating systems.....they are at their most efficient when left on at low temperatures and by using night set back or multi channel time control


"water does not get that hot in radiators and they are well suited to underfloor heating".

With a correctly sized system, with properly calculated size of radiator you will heat the room to your required temperature i.e. 23/25 degrees

A 600mm x 1000mm radiator can be single panel, P1, single with convector P+, double panel with single convectorK1, and a double panel double convector K2…. It’s the same physical size…just a bit thicker but will give out 3 times as much heat as a single panel radiator


"If you need Instant heat in one room you can always use a 'normal' heater to boost until the ASHP has brought it up to temperature".

Yes but that "Instant” Heater (electric) is expensive to run,

"Most ASHP systems do not provide very hot water for showers and you need to boost occasionally with an immersion heater".

An ASHP has to follow strict regulations to be able to comply with British standards, EN ruling etc.. Most of the better systems, the water is heated to 58 degrees to heat water in the cylinder within 50 minutes, the temperature of your shower should never be above 42 degrees (you will start to go very pink) most thermostatic shower valves are restricted at 38....the only reason stored water needs to be over 65 degrees is to kill off legionella. This is done once a week by the immersion heater via timeclock set to lift from 55 to 65 degrees, a 10 degree difference.

ASHP Manufacturers – (air to water), Worcester Bosch, Dimplex, Danfoss, Nibe, Mitsubishi, Daikin, Sanyo, Toshiba, Heatking, Veissmann, Activair, Thermia, Hitachi, Ciat, L.G. Calorex, Trianco,

Great notice.

I have done a lot of reaserch on air source heat pumps. The Danfoss air source heat pump is capable of producing the bath and shower water in an average time of 21 minutes. This uses less time and less energy. If you look on there web site, there are 2 new models on the market, which boast higher efficiencies that a ground source system. You can also locate the air collection units up to 25 meters away from your house, so they do not have to be stuck on the wall.

Another point to mention is that the government as indroduced the Renewable Heat Incentive. Thus, if you buy accredited equipment now, you will not only get £900 in grant funding, you will aslo get the RHI in April 2011.

What is this??

The RHI is an incentive which allows you to get paid for the energy that you produce and use. Thus, if you have a CoP of 450% this meens for every unit of energy that you produce, you will get paid around 6p per kWh for air source or 9p per kWh for ground source. (Currently this is an estimate)

Please have a look at the following web site for more information rhincentive.co.uThis has loads of information on the new incentive.

Any questions, I am more than happy to answer them, email me [EMAIL="tpresto3@hotmail.com"]tpresto3@hotmail.com[/EMAIL]

Good luck.

tpresto3

Any one whom is thinking of using a ground or air source heat pump should have a look at this web site. rhincentive dot co dot uk ( sorry I cannot post the link.
The web site outlines the new incentive that will start in April 2011.

This is a feed in tarrif for heat pumps, and many people will get free heating and hot water, if not make money from using a heat pump.

People using a ground source system could get paid 9p for every unit of energy they produce, and air source users 6p.

Also, if you install the correctly accredited equipment now, you will get grant funding too, and will automatically qualify for the new incentive in April 2011. This really is massive. I do not know which manufacturers equipment offer this, I found out from a friend whom works for Danfoss heat pumps.

Good luck chaps

Hermann

Some slightly more accurate info on RHI .....
http://www.berr.gov.uk/energy/sources/renewables/policy/renewableheatincentive/page50364.html

Its far to early to know what will actually happen let alone quote how much you'll get paid and whether Heat pumps are included!

Even FITs which are much further along the process aren't finalised yet.