"Simplee Solar" / Energy Watch

MORPH3US

trisontana wrote:

If, as Simply Solar claim you can save 40% on your energy bills, then for a typical energy bill of £600 a year, and for a system costing £7,000, it would take nearly 30 years to get your money back. That's assuming a saving of 40% , which is highly questionable.

And doesn't include the cost of maintaining said system for 30 years.....

Rex_Mundi

I still can't help but feel cynical about the companys attempt to answer the countless critisisms in this thread................

About the mysterious three new members...............

We have been told that when the company went to court, customers of quite high social standing were prepared to bear witness for the company. Yet.....all the three posts have the same basic grammer, and spelling mistakes. No proper breaks for paragraphs, and a common use of i when they meant I. We have been told that these are customers that want to set us straight. It seems strange that all the customers that have posted on behalf of the company type in the same incorrect style. Because of the style of posts, I believe these posts are the work of one or maximum two people. It seems strange that a customer sent the login details for their username to the owner of the company. I feel that this was more likely passed from the member of staff that made these posts to his boss.

About the court case..................

The company was taken to court on seven counts, and was convicted on all counts. It's been pointed out there were inaccuracies in the prosecution experts evidence. Surely these inaccuracies were pointed out in court by the defence? By the sheer fact that the company was still found guilty points to other damning evidence against them. Trading Standards would not have brought a case against the company if they did not feel they had a good case against them. This was confirmed by the guilty verdict.

About the Solar Trade Association.................

It's interesting that this association is rubbished as a 'Mickey Mouse organisation', then mention is made of a new body.......the Solar and Renewable Energy Organisation. If find it very interesting that for a body that carries weight, there is not one single mention anywhere on the web about it. Even if it is only three months old, you would have thought there would be a mention somewhere for a reputable organisation by now.

About ISO 9001:2000.............

Strange. I see this was issued to the company 'under the auspices of ASCB(E), listed on The International Register of Quality Assured Organisations'. Neither of these are listed on the only government approved accreditation list at UKAS. Check yourself. Certificates issued from a company without proper government approval for issuing these would seem pretty worthless.

About the press.............

We have seen bad press about this company in different publications (including a feature on Watchdog). We have been told of a story involving Rogue Traders that showed the (unsung) good side of the company. Without evidence to back this up, frankly, this is a bit lightweight. The only source for this is the owner of a company that we have seen only bad press for, we have seen countless negative posts in here for, and have been proven in the courts to be breaking certain points of law.

Whilst I admire the owner for trying to protect his business interests. I cant help feeling we are being fed a big spoonful of manure.

tom154uk

Typical answer from an uneducated who thinks he knows it all, but knows nothing, I’m afraid that the word inflation is a fact of life, but some people seem to forget that when comes to spreading lies.
Fuel has increased by over 30% in the last 12 months, never mind the increases before that, the average fuel bills per household is in excess of £1100.
Here’s a little equation for you to think about,

INVESTMENT £7000 INTEREST AT 5% = £350 – TAX AT 40% = £210

Year 1: £7000 + 210 = £7210

Year 2: £7426.30

Year 3: £7649.09

Year 4: £7878.56

Year 5: £8114.91

Year 6: £8358.36

Year 7: £8609.11

Year 8: £8867.38

Year 9: £9133.40

Year 10: £9407.40

Year 11: £9689.62

The figures above would be great in a perfect world, but I have not allowed for any inflation to be taken into account, (if these figures were included the figure would be much lower) never mind fuel inflation, and in real terms WHAT do you think £9689.62 is going to be worth in spending power in 10 years time compared to the same amount today. (Possibly half)

Now let’s look at solar as a pure investment, I’ll use 10% increase in fuel prices which is being very conservative considering fuel increases in the last 3 years have been closer to 30% per year. The SIMPLEE solar system is capable of saving approx 30% of fuel bills (according to how much hot water you use) the average fuel bill for the UK is in excess of £1100.
The Simplee solar system has been tested by an expert who states that with 2 people living in a house it could be expected to supply 73.6% of your hot water needs all year round using 2sqms of collectors,bear in mind we never use less then 3sqms of collectors on any house,and on many even more.
The B.R.E (British reserch establishment) state that hot water equates for 40% of all energy bills.
40 X 73.6% = 29.44%
But rememeber we use at least 3sqms of collectors per household,so i dont think it would be unreasonable to round the 29.44% up to 30%


Solar system at £7000 Fuel bill £1100

Year 1: £1100 X 30% = £330

Year 2: £1100 + 10% = £1210 X 30% = £363

Year 3: = £399.30

Year 4: = £439.23

Year 5: = £483.15

Year 6: = £531.47

Year 7: = £584.61

Year 8: = £643.07

Year 9: = £707.38

Year 10: = £778.12

Year 11: = £855.94

Year 11: = Average fuel bill now £3138.44 = £941.53

TOTAL = £7056.80

You have now achieved a pay back in little under 11 years, bearing in mind if the real increases in fuel were used it would be considerably less. The good news is now you have your money back the savings to you are incredible. This is the reason so many retired people take an interest in solar power. Two things happen when you retire.
Your income goes down and your outgoings go up, every year the gap between the two gets bigger and bigger.

So in one corner we have a £7000 investment that will give you a return of £2689.62 after 11 years (its important you take into account what this will be worth to you compared to the same amount today. £9689.62 will be the equivalent to around £4844.81 in today’s money. This is an investment worth less and less every year that goes by.

In the other corner we have a £7000 investment in a solar system.
You achieve a payback in little less than 11 years and now every year the savings to you are incredible. This is an investment going up and up every year.

YOU DECIDE WHICH THE MOST LOGICAL INVESTMENT IS.

And please all you negative people looking for anything to moan about, I have been more then fair in my figures, we are talking about a safe investment here not a gamble.

By using a 10% increase in fuel prices i have mirrored the last 20 years, not taking into account the upsurge in prices over the last 3 years.

Please do not fall into the trap of thinking fuel prices will come tumbling down,while the continent and especially Russian contol our destiny i,m afraid this just wont happen.

Your choice wait for a miracle or control part of your own desiny.

maninthestreet

What percentage of pensioners who buy one of these systems are going to be still alive in 11 years time to see the benefit?

tom154uk

To Rex (I really do need to get a life and stop being jealous of every successful person I meet) Mundi.
I get the impression that this is a WE HATE SIMPLEE SOLAR SITE, and anybody saying anything positive about us must be lies, its not possible that they could be true is it, oh no that would be good news, and all we want is bad news and negativity
You know nothing about the court case as you were not present, but that won’t stop you giving your opinion as you seem to have a lot of opinions. The legal system in the UK is flawed, but it’s the best we have got, but if you’re taken to court by a government body, you must be guilty; we still believe we were harshly treated by the trading standards and the court, every one of our 10 customers who attended court as witnesses were ignored.
As for your comments on the help we gave Mr. hillier regarding the rogue traders program.
Anybody who would like to talk to Mr. hillier about his experiences would be more then welcome, but let’s be sensible if it’s a reassurance you need about our company I know he would not mind talking to you, he is a real person and we don’t want people bothering him unless they are serious. Our website is being updated at the moment and Mr. hillier will be featuring on it once it is finished, maybe then that might just be enough proof, very unlikely reading some of the comments on here.
Instead of sitting on this site moaning, why not come and visit our offices and see the setup.
I don’t class 5 or 6 complaints as countless when you consider we have installed over 4500 systems.
Another person has responded with: what percentage of pensioners will still be alive in 11 years.
What a stupid reply, just about sums up the attitude of some people in this world, you think that when people die they take their money with them, living to past a 100 is a common thing now days. Good news for these people is that if they die they cant take their money with them so have lost nothing, if they don’t die then they have their money back, it’s a win win situation, BUTS NOT LETS NOT FORGET THE ENVIRONMENTAL ISSUE HERE, not only do you get a payback but you are also helping the environment . Maybe some of you people need to take a course in positive attitude it might help you get on in life rather then being bitter and twisted with other peoples success.

I will not be posting anymore comments on here as I came on here to put our companies view across to sensible people, I feel I have said everything I need to say and I am not prepared to get in an argument with people who do not know what they are talking about.
I do hope that to all you sensible people who are in the process of buying a SIMPLEE SOLAR system feel reassured with the comments I have put on here.
Thank you.

Thomas Callaghan
Sales director of SIMPLEE SOLAR LTD


PS. I have no problem answering genuine questions from people.

trisontana

Another point. Although energy prices have increased over the last few years they are tipped to fall in the future. This is because of extra capacity of gas pipe-lines into the UK.

MORPH3US

tom,

I have no hidden agenda here, only helping people out, so can you please answer these questions:

1. What is the average lifespan of the equipment that you install?

2. How often does it need servicing and how much does this cost (appreciate you might not know but a guess would help)?

Cheers

M

tom154uk

The average lifespan of the equipment, we would expect the system to last in excess of 30 years,the pump might need replacing at some time before that.The solar collectors have been used in Europe in such countries as Germany,Austria,Holland etc for over 20 years.
As for cost, thats a hard one as most houses differ, size, occupation etc.
But somewhere between £5000 and £7000 would be the norm.
You have to realise that some houses can be even more,really depends on how many bathrooms you have,people living at the property,size of cylinder to be replaced,type of cylinder to be replaced,ie: mains pressure,combi boiler etc.The only real servicing needed is the system sometimes might need topping up with glycol, which is a simple process and can be shown to a customer in a matter of minutes.
I hope thats of some assistance to you.

trisontana

I thought I would just post this statement from the Building Services and Environmental Engineer website :-
"The trade price for a complete system ranges from £1100 to £2500 — depending on size, type and manufacturer. Installed price ranges from £2500 to £5000, including VAT at the reduced rate of 5%. Unfortunately, this business has been plagued with charlatans doing hard sells on systems costing £7500 or more, which has created the myth that solar-heating systems are expensive."

I have also spotted a flaw in the calculations from Tom154UK where he is talking about a saving on a fuel bill of £1,100. A solar heating system will only heat the water for the hot taps and not for a central heating system. I imagine that of the quoted £1,100 only a small proportion of energy is used to heat hot water. The rest of that £1,100 will involve central heating, lights, domestic appliances etc. Solar panels will have give no saving at all on these.

paul_h

There's no doubt that the long term future of fuel prices is uncertain, although shorter term futures are falling. That said, there are many flaws in your arguments. However, I will only select one to explore - this has been covered many times on this forum, and the figures have been calculated ad finitum. A search of the forum will provide members with all the arguments for and against.

tom154uk wrote:

Now let’s look at solar as a pure investment, I’ll use 10% increase in fuel prices which is being very conservative considering fuel increases in the last 3 years have been closer to 30% per year. The SIMPLEE solar system is capable of saving approx 30% of fuel bills (according to how much hot water you use) the average fuel bill for the UK is in excess of £1100

I cannot believe you are suggesting that an average user can save £330 per annum on their DHW bills, when few people actually use anywhere near £330 worth of DHW. In the UK, you can expect to save around 50% of your annual DHW costs (note - NOT total heating bill) - according to the UK Digest of Energy Statistics, average DHW usage is around 24% of total gas usage in the average home, which amounts to around 5000kWh per annum, or around £150 per annum. You could expect to save around half of that, or around £75 per annum. Certainly not £330.

Before you brand me as another forum member who is another...

tom154uk wrote:

uneducated who thinks he knows it all, but knows nothing

...I have been a solar DHW system owner/user for many years and I know what they are capable of, as well as being educated as an engineer. Although I support the use of solar DHW systems, indeed any renewable energy sources, at this latitude there is no hope that a commercially installed installation will ever repay the initial investment.

My own 5 square metre installation saves us about £60-£70 of fuel per annum, not taking into account maintenance costs - such as renewing the antifreeze every 5 years, which I do myself. I inherited the system when I purchased the house, and it added no value whatsoever to the house - another myth that the installers will tell you. The initial investment made by the previous owners will never be repaid.

In addition, you may well have your own opinions and wish to push your business, but I would say that insulting other members of the forum who happen to disagree with your view does absolutely nothing to further your cause.