'Hugh's Chicken Run' A Moral Dilemna for DFWs?

hbl_2

rog2 wrote: »

hbl - I didn't want to get into an argument - I just thought that your post may have come accross as 'insensitive' and may have been phrased slightly differently if you had actually watched the programme.

The process of intensively rearing chickens (as well as other meat, and intensive farming) is dreadful, but it's not a well kept secret and it's nothing new. Commercial interests drive the food industry, and the supermarkets are as much to blame as the producers, and I would argue far more culpable.

I wonder if anybody gave as much thought to this over Christmas? I belive it was the intensive farming of turkeys which ursurped the goose as the meal of choice for the 25th. (for the record, mine came from a local farm and I got to pick it out).

boredofbeingathome

i got my turkey from the local farm shop and beautiful it was too- not the norfolk kind. I thought i'd mention one of our other local supermarkets called booth's- it supports local famers and stocks extensive free range / organic products- a bit pricey though! for a north west town we have access to a lot of choice- all major supermarkets, a large market, local butchers and farm shops, very few farmers markets though- so its not all bad up t'north!

boredofbeingathome

I also appreciate the comments regarding budgets, i have to feed a family of 5, on a ltd budget and spend roughly £222 a month on food and essentials, i have a £50 pot for buying bulkier items,( if i see a good offer for freezer/ powder etc) or dip into for emergencies. One of my children is diabetic, and has had a bowel problem from birth so i have always been very careful about what i feed her and advocate a good balanced basic diet. We eat well on a budget and i have always tried to eat ethically where i can.I think this site, with all the tips is great for enabling us all to make informed choices, and if i can make better informed choices and save money at the same time- then i will.

pania

hbl wrote: »

I'm not insensitive to the welfare of animals at all,

But are more than happy for any animnals that are being mistreated to go undetected rather than spend money to detect that suffering. look at the case in the press this week with 38 horses found dead and a further 86 being rescued. SHould we have left them there to suffer and die to save the cost of rescuing them?
I'd imagine your immediate response would be "no of course not" but that was effectively what you were saying in your first post, that the money would be better spent elsewhere.
The only reason the response would be no is as the case is now in the public eye and no longer hidden, that is what HFW and JO are trying to do through this program.

HBL wrote:

my point is that if you want to buy cheap chicken, what do you expect?

I don't want to buy cheap chicken, never have never will. I don't eat meat or fish in any shape or form. As can be seen from my sig my financial situation is such as i can't expect to or justify spending mega amounts on food. If i buy a free range chicken from a farm shop for OH then we invariably go without something else to make up for the cost

hbl wrote:

As for getting all worked up about it, doesn't that affirm my point about expending energy?

I see this as a deliberately inflamatory comment.

However as a human i have the choice how to expend my energy. If however i had forced my dog to run past the point of exhaustion, or my pony to jump beyond the height that would cause him pain then that WOULD be affirming your point.

hbl wrote:

I think people should stop thinking that they can solve all the world's problems just by shopping...

This has never even been stated. bu the fact is, less demand=less profit. less profit=a change in the market to increase profit. in the area of animal welfare shopping CAN do some good.

esthomizzy

If available I always buy free range at least. Organic if I can afford it (not usually) or I manage without. I don't eat much prepared food anyway or avoiding non free range meat would be really difficult. I don't like to see (or participate in animals (or in fact people) being mistreated but the main reason for me is the taste, free range meat is so much tastier and I have often found (when eating say a preprepared chicken sandwich) that the meat is cloying and often tastes on the point of off even when well within date. I've therefore assumed that it's rank meat rather than off and it sticks in my throat. I therefore always avoid chicken in anything prepared.

That's my reasons but like many other things in the world my opinion will not make everyone else think like me so everyone is welcome to what they feel comfortable with.

dizzy_lizzie

gt568 wrote: »

Surely all the talk of herbivore, omnivore, vegitarian, vegan whatever is irrelevant to this debate. Isn't the debate whether or not we can afford to eat battery chicken both morally and financially.
Vegetarian/meat eater is for another thread surely.

Yes you're right hence why I said after my 2nd ? post I wasn't going to refer to the points picked out by ZTD as we'd just be going round in circles. We did digress, sometimes that's interesting but not relevant to the thread you posted rog2.
My apologies to you rog2
Luvz Dizzy x

gt568

dizzy_lizzie wrote: »

Yes you're right hence why I said after my 2nd ? post I wasn't going to refer to the points picked out by ZTD as we'd just be going round in circles. We did digress, sometimes that's interesting but not relevant to the thread you posted rog2.
My apologies to you rog2
Luvz Dizzy x

Here here.

For us, we'll just eat less meat, but good quality, till we are debt free.

ZTD

rog2 wrote: »

I hope you can catch up with the show, as I think you may wish to 'edit' your post, hbl.

Well I find all points of view acceptable - it's often not people's fault that they're wrong.

So long as your facts are correct - let the debate commence...

rog2 wrote: »

You are quite correct in that this is a 'capitalist economy' and, ordinarily, I think I might agree with treating humans as a 'priority' but the 'treatment' of the 'chickens in question' was more akin to the Nazi's treatment of religious and ethnic minority groups than a few 'crackpots' suggesting that we should treat animals better than we treat our own kids.

Oh dear me Rog - Godwin's Law strikes again...

dizzy_lizzie

ZTD wrote: »

Well I find all points of view acceptable - it's often not people's fault that they're wrong.
So long as your facts are correct - let the debate commence...quote]


Oh I do agree with this...;)
x

ZTD

hbl wrote: »

The process of intensively rearing chickens (as well as other meat, and intensive farming) is dreadful, but it's not a well kept secret and it's nothing new.

Adulteration of food, by injection of water and other chemicals is not new, and not a secret (though attempts are made) - but it isn't acceptable either.

hbl wrote: »

Commercial interests drive the food industry, and the supermarkets are as much to blame as the producers, and I would argue far more culpable.

But cruelty does not make things cheaper. Kicking a turkey around a barn has not reduced its price one iota. IMHO, food adulteration and poor food run hand in hand. Supermarkets need a dead bird, which they can then fill up with water to make it appear like a "real" chicken. If we banned injecting water (for example), we would look at this



expecting this


and say "no way!" However what we are offered at the supermarkets at the moment is this:

hbl wrote: »

I wonder if anybody gave as much thought to this over Christmas? I belive it was the intensive farming of turkeys which ursurped the goose as the meal of choice for the 25th. (for the record, mine came from a local farm and I got to pick it out).

I had ham, didn't get to choose it, but walked past the (live) pigs on the way into the shop.