'Hugh's Chicken Run' A Moral Dilemna for DFWs?

Burlesque_Babe

elantan wrote: »

i watched the kill it cook it eat it shows for veal and milk fed lambs ...i found watching the first two lambs getting slaughtered very upsetting

I know - particularly that first tiny lamb (the 5 week old one) which was the youngest and the smallest and the 'stun' equipment didn't do the job, god that was awful.

redsquirrel80

lisyloo wrote: »

So it's seems to me that if you go veggie then you can be 100% sure about welfare standards

True.. but then there are issues surrounding production of all food products of course, such as the environmental impact (see here for one article on 'food miles' - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4312591.stm), which will then have a knock-on effect on the habitats of animals (and humans).....

neverdespairgirl

redsquirrel80 wrote: »

True.. but then there are issues surrounding production of all food products of course, such as the environmental impact (see here for one article on 'food miles' - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4312591.stm), which will then have a knock-on effect on the habitats of animals (and humans).....

Food miles are a big issue, I agree.

My mother is a genius at Christmas dinner.

This year we had organic turkey, with sausage stuffing one end and
apricot and nut the other, roast spuds (choice of goose fat or veggie),
roast parsnips, leek sauce, bread sauce, cranberry sauce, sausages
wrapped in bacon, carrots, sweetcorn, spouts, peas, turnips in butter
with herbs, sludge (a puree of swede and carrot) and roasted pumpkin.
All the vet apart from the sweetcorn was grown by my parents.

hbl_2

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

All the vet apart from the sweetcorn was grown by my parents.

I'm on the waiting list for a nearby allotment, but that's just a hippy dream! My neighbour passed away about 10 years ago, and his daughter has done nothing with the house. I was going to see about agreeing a licence to use the garden for growing and see how I got on, but no sooner had I thought it that they put up a massive great fence on the boundary! (there used to be a section missing, which we would go through to mow the lawn etc, but they obviously didn't want us to do that)

neverdespairgirl

hbl wrote: »

I'm on the waiting list for a nearby allotment, but that's just a hippy dream!

Hope you get one soon - do you know what the average wait is?

elantan

karen your bang on the money that is the bit i found the worst ...the stun gun not working then they had to shoot it ...i noticed they shot all the others i think they thought that there might be an outcry if the same thing happened again ....the twitching going on was bad as well ...i have to admit though i didnt find the process as bad as i thought it would be but i couldnt eat milk fed lambs either (never have )

rog2

hbl wrote: »

Hey, Godwin's Law!

And comparing broiler chickens to the holocaust is a gross insensitivity.

hbl - I didn't want to get into an argument - I just thought that your post may have come accross as 'insensitive' and may have been phrased slightly differently if you had actually watched the programme.

My own reason for asking my original question was that it does, very much, put me in a dilemna.
I have, for the last 30 years, made my living out of the Meat Processing Industry and, being perfectly honest, I often didn't give a second thought to the breeding of the animals, mainly pigs and poultry, that the machines and processes that I sold, were designed to process.
I have, always, been of the impression that anything that we eat deserves to be treated with respect in both its life and the manner in which it is slaughtered.
You are absolutely correct when you say that we live in a capitalist economy, and it is also true that intensive farming has made meat more affordable to ordinary people. However, by the very nature of capitalism, producers/retailers will always be looking at ways to increase their margins, and the 'rearing' of animals will not escape that quest.
'Intensive' farming is nothing new - it is the 'methods' of intesive farming that have changed. The 'intensive rearing' featured on the HFW programme, whilst horrific to many, was not necessarily the most intensive method that is in use - the programme talked also of 'crated' rearing, where the chickens would not even have the limited freedom of movement that they 'enjoyed' in the 'barn'.
I have always eaten 'meat' and have no intention of changing, although one of my daughters is vegetarian and I fully respect her views. I do buy 'free-range' but only when either it is reduced, or I can afford it, and am as guilty as the next person of wanting to buy at the lowest possible price, thereby fuelling the need for processors to find yet more ways of reducing the cost of their products.
At the same time, I have always considered myself to be a fairly moral sort of person. Whether or not the programme in question was more to do with HFW's own personal agenda is irrelevant - it served to remind me, and probably many others, that we tend to 'choose' not to think about the welfare of the animals that are bred for our tables.
I don't think, from a purely economic viewpoint, that I, or my family, will switch totally from intensively farmed to free-range, but I will support any moves to improve the methods of 'intensive farming' for the benefit of the livestock in question.

elantan

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

Hope you get one soon - do you know what the average wait is?

in my council the wait is over 100 years ...i think i may be dead by the time i get one ...they only have 127 allotments for the full of the area one or two a year max change hands and the waiting list is over 250 long .....so i'm gonna use my garden in stead...good luck with getting one

hbl_2

neverdespairgirl wrote: »

Hope you get one soon - do you know what the average wait is?

Well there is a note in my diary to email them about it again in April... I think the wait will be at least 18 months!

lesley_rod

I didn't watch the programmes but have a similar dilemma at the moment.
I'm vegetarian, have been for nearly 25 years :eek: BUT I'm also a single Mum with 2 kids who do eat meat, particularly ds who is a complete omnivore....my Mum sends him food parcels! Mum buys her meat from a local butcher.
I'm also trying to cut back shopping to get my finances in order and this whole debt v animal welfare question is a major dilemma for me.
I only buy organic eggs and meat (can you see why ds get's meat parcels!) but just can't afford to buy regularly however ds is 11 and beginning to complain more and more about the veggie diet.
Dd, now 16, has stopped complaining but has more control over her diet as she works so can buy MacD's or more likely Subway's if that's what she decides to do.
I buy organic not because I believe organic is particularly better but that the chances are the animals are treated better, or that was the case until recently however with the supermarkets now cashing in on organic that's possibly no longer true.
Although not optimistic I hope the type of publicity these shows provoke might lead to a time when the farmers gets paid a fair price for rearing animals for slaughter in a humane way AND we pay a fair (which can't be cheap) price in the shops. Sadly more likely the farmers will get squeezed, we will pay more and the supermarkets will make even more.