'Hugh's Chicken Run' A Moral Dilemna for DFWs?

pania

hbl wrote: »

I don't care much for animal welfare - I think a lot of time and energy is wasted by people who care more for animals than they do people.

I'm sorry hbl, I don't know if you were deliberately trying to be controversial but this has made me very angry.

Welfare of animals is something that is solely in the hands of humans. they do not have the ability to look after theirselves, they rely on us to do it for them.

The atrocities in the world are caused by humans, free to make their own life decisions, free to make the choice to cause said atrocities. we have the liberty of leading our own lives, making our own decisions, if humans have caused the world to be in the state that it is, a free resource that we were given by the universe, with perfect conditions for life, perfect conditions for harmony and the perfect environment to sustain life for millions upon millions of years provided that it wasn't abused then humans only should suffer as a result of that.

HUMANS breed animals for intensive farming
HUMANS subject the animals to untold cruelties
HUMANS see animals as they do a commodity and like everything else in the world, gas, oil, the environment, feel that is their right to abuse that gift.
ITS NOT!!!

An animal is a living breathing feeling emotive intelligent creature that feels suffering, feels pain, feels stress and feels boredom in exactly the same manner as humans. the fact that they lack the intellect to express this or do something about it does not excuse the treatment of them.

So to suggest that a lot of time and money is wasted on animal welfare is disgusting. we have the responsibility to look after these animals and it's about time certain humans started seeing the value of life, in whatever shape or form that life takes!!

You know that tough piece of steak you've eaten previously? that is generally caused by a release of phosphorous into the animals tissue as it has suffered a very stressful death.
Tender meat= stressfree lifestyle and death.

So even if you can't see your way clear to a little compassion for animals, think of it as this. if the animal is well looked after and cared for, you get a nicer meal for it.

Burlesque_Babe

Jorgan wrote: »

We watched it and as a result have decided to buy free rangeRSPCA scheme in future.

To quote directly from HFW's meat book on labelling:

"Freedom Food should not be taken as any kind of indication that the meat thus certified is either extensively farmed or in any sense free range. Most of the animals to which it is applied are reared under fairly intensive conventional systems. Freedom Foods...insist on strae bedding and a little bit more space 'per kilo for indoor reared pigs...there are free range meats available in the Freedom Foods range"

That's an edited version but basically he is saying the labelling doesn't necessarily mean it is free range (although it might be) - it could still be intensively farmed, but the labelling means that they are against any 'cruelty' to the animals.

Just so you are aware when making the choice - just to double check the labelling


Off to buy some Haggis.......my favourite company Devon Rose has some at the moment. OH wants to try mutton after watching Kill It, Cook It Eat It so I'm going to add some of that to my basket as well

pania

re-reading my post, i think i missede out one very vital word. That word?? GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! ;-)

lisyloo

Surely all the talk of herbivore, omnivore, vegitarian, vegan whatever is irrelevant to this debate. Isn't the debate whether or not we can afford to eat battery chicken both morally and financially.

Vegetarian/meat eater is for another thread surely.

I'm not so sure.
I'm an omnivore.
I don't have an objection to eating meat per-se because I think we are naturally meant to. However I don't agree with poor animal welfare standards.

It's all very well buying free-range but
1) How can you be sure of what you are getting (unless you know it comes from a specific farm).
2) What do you do when you go out to a restaurant/buy a sandwhich etc.

Personally I'm not sure whether I have the energy or to to "grill" every waiter on where their meat comes from an I'm 99% sure that in the "lower end" eating establishments (like service stations, airports etc.) that they wouldn't have a clue or be able to find out anyway.

So it's seems to me that if you go veggie then you can be 100% sure about welfare standards whereas if you're a careful meat eater then it's very difficult do that (especially if you spend time in airports or anywhere that choice or time is restricted, you don't speak the language or they don't have the info).

Badger_Lady

My angle on this is that no-one HAS to eat chicken at all. It's always cheaper to eat the corn than the bird.

However, if you like chicken and can afford it, go out and buy free range.

If intensive farming hadn't been started, you wouldn't have had the option of a "2 for £5" chicken. What would you do then? Yes, eat something else cheaper, and save your chicken for Sunday dinners.

I've read a lot of debate over this issue, and still can't entertain the idea that anyone has to buy cheap chicken. It's nonsense - you either choose to eat cheap chicken or you eat something else.

Only those with spare cash would consider a like-for-like replacement of free-range chicken for all the meals they currently use.

JoeHel

hbl, if I'm honest I never really thought twice about where meat came from (embarrassing to admit now I've seen the 3 shows ) I just picked it off the shelves and cooked it. Some tasted better than others but when it's covered in curry sauce, who cares, right? WRONG!

I now DO CARE very much where that meat has come from! I always wondered why the slight-more-expensive pork from the butchers tasted better (and the crackling "crackled" better) and it's because supermarkets get everything frozen. As from today I pledge that any chicken I buy will be free range and (to the best of my knowledge and belief) will have had a relatively happy life for a chicken! I would now rather go without than buy cheap meat. I do not have money to throw away, but would rather leave something else out of my trolley than support the battery farming industry. I have always bought free range eggs anyway, so this is a logical step.

hbl_2

rog2 wrote: »

I hope you can catch up with the show, as I think you may wish to 'edit' your post, hbl.
was more akin to the Nazi's treatment of religious and ethnic minority groups than a few 'crackpots' suggesting that we should treat animals better than we treat our own kids.

Hey, Godwin's Law!

And comparing broiler chickens to the holocaust is a gross insensitivity.

zar

lisyloo wrote: »

I'm not so sure.
I'm an omnivore.
I don't have an objection to eating meat per-se because I think we are naturally meant to. However I don't agree with poor animal welfare standards.

It's all very well buying free-range but
1) How can you be sure of what you are getting (unless you know it comes from a specific farm).
2) What do you do when you go out to a restaurant/buy a sandwhich etc.

Personally I'm not sure whether I have the energy or to to "grill" every waiter on where their meat comes from an I'm 99% sure that in the "lower end" eating establishments (like service stations, airports etc.) that they wouldn't have a clue or be able to find out anyway.

So it's seems to me that if you go veggie then you can be 100% sure about welfare standards whereas if you're a careful meat eater then it's very difficult do that (especially if you spend time in airports or anywhere that choice or time is restricted, you don't speak the language or they don't have the info).

(1) Buy from a source you trust: this could be at a farmers market or from the farm, but it could be from a supermarket who I think would get in a lot of trouble if they mislabelled chicken as free-range when it wasn't. I expect most of them have info on their websites about their standards. Or if you can afford the extra and welfare is important to you, buy something with extra labelling such as soil association organic, which has higher free-range standards (see here (scroll down) for a table for the different standards of different labels). The organic code will tell you who certified the farm and what their standards are, so for example if it has organic certification UK5 on the wrapping that means soil association, so you know that the minimum amount of space per chicken is 4 square metres and a maximum flock size of 1000 birds.

(2) I just avoid chicken and pork when eating out - I can't believe any restaurant would use free-range meat and not put it on the menu (and charge extra of course). I'll eat beef or lamb as chances are they have been farmed extensively, or if that isn't available I'll have a vegetarian meal. One thing I miss is take-away chicken curries - I was very jealous of Axminster being able to buy free-range curries from their Indian for a week!

Reading through this thread has been great. I was worried that the only people who would watch the TV shows would be people who were already interested in the issues so its fantastic that it seems to have done the job of raising awareness even if people have different opinions. I thought that maybe the programme didn't push the idea of eating less, better quality meat enough, which HFW talks about in his books. That's what we had to do when we made "the switch" a couple of years ago. We probably only have chicken once or twice a month now instead of several times a week, but its now something that I really look forward to and don't take for granted. :j

elantan

i watched hugh's 3 shows and i watched the kill it cook it eat it shows for veal and milk fed lambs ...i found watching the first two lambs getting slaughtered very upsetting you saw everything there is to see and i saw the chickens going through the same fate ... but the thing that affected me most of all though was the conditions the chickens were kept in

however i can understand that some people can only afford 2 for £5

i think at the end of the day it is up to the individual what they choose to do i am lucky now that i am debt free so i will endevour to buy free range but at the same time we eat alot of chicken so financially this might have to be looked at and possibly reduced

i am just more relieved that i can afford to buy free range and have total sympathy for those that would love to but feel they cant afford it

hbl_2

pania wrote: »

re-reading my post, i think i missede out one very vital word. That word?? GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! ;-)

Quite.

I'm not insensitive to the welfare of animals at all, my point is that if you want to buy cheap chicken, what do you expect? As for getting all worked up about it, doesn't that affirm my point about expending energy?

I think in the immediate short term, if I stopped buying cheap chicken it might have more effect on the industry than say, buying the cheap stuff and putting the difference to humanitarian aid would have on alleviating suffering abroad, or at home. *edit*

I think people should stop thinking that they can solve all the world's problems just by shopping...