Thames water Meter gone AWOL

Farway

middlewife said:

Now, I may have failed my maths GCSE, but it seems to me that TW base their projected future use estimates on magic fairy dust. How on earth can they calculate expected future use when they can't be bothered to read the meter for 2 years?  I accept that we should have submitted readings, and I fully intend to do so, but it is not an easy process, bailing out gallons of water when disabled and unable to kneel on the pavement. Gas and electric meters are childs play by comparison....... your thoughts please?

While in discussion with TW maybe raise fitting a Smart meter so you can monitor on line daily, weekly or whatever as you have difficulty monitoring the meter?

TW may vary but mine, Portsmouth, sends daily readings so it could be monitored

Just as an aside, and not meant unkindly, but perhaps also get on the Vulnerable customer list, if only in the event of water stoppage TW will bring bottled water to you & not expect you, and your knees, to go and collect it

QrizB

Farway said:

While in discussion with TW maybe raise fitting a Smart meter so you can monitor on line daily, weekly or whatever as you have difficulty monitoring the meter?

TW may vary but mine, Portsmouth, sends daily readings so it could be monitored

OP already had a smart meter; it's the "smart" part that is partially covering the readout and making it difficult to interpret.

TW's smart meters (as pictured by the OP) don't report over-the-air but need a van to drive around and interrogate them. This generally happens twice a year, to match the billing cycle. I can't see TW sending a van out every day, no matter how nicely the OP asks them.

Note that TW will generate a revised bill if a customer takes their own meter and submits it via their account page online. This might be something the OP could do? 

Farway

QrizB said:

Farway said:

While in discussion with TW maybe raise fitting a Smart meter so you can monitor on line daily, weekly or whatever as you have difficulty monitoring the meter?

TW may vary but mine, Portsmouth, sends daily readings so it could be monitored

OP already had a smart meter; it's the "smart" part that is partially covering the readout and making it difficult to interpret.

TW's smart meters (as pictured by the OP) don't report over-the-air but need a van to drive around and interrogate them. This generally happens twice a year, to match the billing cycle. I can't see TW sending a van out every day, no matter how nicely the OP asks them.

Note that TW will generate a revised bill if a customer takes their own meter and submits it via their account page online. This might be something the OP could do? 

Maybe I was not too clear, what I meant was the NEW type of smart meter, that transmits reading hourly, without needing a van to drive by & be done with it

First paragraph

https://www.thameswater.co.uk/help/water-meters

middlewife

Farway said:

QrizB said:

Farway said:

While in discussion with TW maybe raise fitting a Smart meter so you can monitor on line daily, weekly or whatever as you have difficulty monitoring the meter?

TW may vary but mine, Portsmouth, sends daily readings so it could be monitored

OP already had a smart meter; it's the "smart" part that is partially covering the readout and making it difficult to interpret.

TW's smart meters (as pictured by the OP) don't report over-the-air but need a van to drive around and interrogate them. This generally happens twice a year, to match the billing cycle. I can't see TW sending a van out every day, no matter how nicely the OP asks them.

Note that TW will generate a revised bill if a customer takes their own meter and submits it via their account page online. This might be something the OP could do? 

Maybe I was not too clear, what I meant was the NEW type of smart meter, that transmits reading hourly, without needing a van to drive by & be done with it

First paragraph

https://www.thameswater.co.uk/help/water-meters

Unfortunately, they are only fitting smart meters in London, Guildford, Waverley, not in Reading, although they "are working hard to install meters in Reading" but not, as far as I can tell, smart meters. I will ask, once I've got all my evidence together if they can switch me to a truly smart meter. Would have thought it easier for them in the long term....

middlewife

Evening all, it’s taken a while to work through the bills, but there are some really strange things going on. I will list the meter readings first, both actual and estimated as there are some odd readings. Then I will list the payment “plans” and projected versus actual spend; again, the figures vary wildly, in 2019 to 2022, our DDs were increased by TW and then decreased to address surplus or shortfall. In comparison with gas and electric bills, which seem to accurately forecast future spend and set DDs realistically, TW seem to be all over the place, here goes…..

Date of bill	dates from	Date to	Actual or estimated	usage in cubic metres
17/04/2020	11/10/2019	22/04/2020	Actual	98
13/10/2020	23/04/2020	12/10/2020	Actual 1082	69
20/04/2021	13/10/2020	20/04/2021	Actual 1200	118
25/10/2021	21/04/2021	22/10/2021	ESTIMATED	128
25/04/2022	23/10/2021	22/04/2022	ESTIMATED	126
24/10/2022	22/04/2022	22/10/2022	ESTIMATED 1581	127
24/04/2023	23/10/2022	22/04/2023	ESTIMATED	126
24/07/2023	23/10/2022	21/07/2023	ACTUAL 1584	3

 

The obvious problem here is that the estimated bills from 21/04/21 to 22/04/23 are over estimated by quite some margin. The year from 10/2019 to 10/2020 is 167 cubic metres; each estimated year is around 250 metres.

How can a metre go backwards? The reading of 1584 on 21/07/23 should have billed for 384 cubic metres; the estimated payments total 507 cubic metres; so an overpayment of 123 cubic metres       if my maths is correct……….how they work out what rate applied to what meter usage I have no idea

Date of bill	dates from	Date to	Actual or estimated	usage in cubic metres
11/01/2	4   22/07/23	10/01/2024	ACTUAL	75
22/01/2024	PAYMENT PLAN NOT A BILL	for 6 months
payment	interim
	11/01/24 - 02/07/24	Account balance on your bill dated 11 January 2024 - £562.16	The cost of what we think you’ll use over the next 7 months
			We’ve worked this out based on your previous use
			£273.25
03/07/2024	11/01/2024	02/07/2024	Actual 1730	72
Date of bill	dates from	Date to	Actual or estimated	usage in cubic metres
08/01/2025	03/07/2024	07/01/2025	ACTUAL 1876	146
07/07/2025	08/01/2025	04/07/2025	ACTUAL 1904	28 ????
08/01/2026	05/07/2025	07/01/2026	Actual 1988	84

 

PROJECTIONS/CREDIT/DEBIT/REFUNDS

25/10/21

Amount in credit at last bill (dated 13 October 2020) -£62.30

Payments made since last bill – thank you -£228.00

Total new charges £299.68

Your estimated future charges £600.62

 

Your current account balance £9.38

Payments yet to make from previous plan -£38.00

Your estimated charges £600.62

Balance carried forward to your next plan -£0.00

Total amount due £572.00 Your new monthly payment of £52.00 is due on 07 of

every month, your first payment is due on 07 June 2021.

 

24/07/23 Bill review

What you owed for your bill dated 24 April 2023 £67.96
What you’ve paid - £186.00 - 9 May 23 £58; 7 Jun 23 £64 7 Jul 23 £64	Total charges from 23 Oct 2022 to 21 Jul 2023 + £51.70
Cancelled charges from 23 Oct 2022 to 22 Apr 2023 - £346.75	Current account balance -£413.09

 

11/01/24 payment plan

We estimate your charges will be £1,074.20 over 12 months

Amount currently in credit on your account £562.16

We'll use this credit to pay for your future charges

 

DD set at £64

 

REVISED PAYMENT PLAN 22/01/24

 

Account balance on your bill dated 11 January 2024 - £562.16

The cost of what we think you’ll use over the next 7 months =  £273.25

What you need to pay £288.91

We spread £288.91 over 6 months. Payments are rounded to the nearest £

£46  a month FOR Feb 24 - July 24

 

PAYMENT PLAN 03/07/24

based on an average daily use of £1.48. We're predicting the cost of what you'll use to be £581.44.

Account balance on your bill dated 11 January 2024 - £562.16 What you’ve paid - £276.00

9 Feb 2024: £46.00 7 Mar 2024: £46.00 8 Apr 2024: £46.00

7 May 2024: £46.00 7 Jun 2024: £46.00 8 Jul 2024: £46.0   We've refunded your bank account + £562.18

Total charges from 11 Jan 2024 to 2 Jul 2024 + £244.17

 

Amount currently in credit on your account, We'll use this credit to pay for your future charges

= - £31.81

The cost of what we think you’ll use over the next 12 months  =  £581.44

What you need to pay £549.63

 

 

Payment plan 07/07/25

 

Your current payments aren't high enough to cover what we think you'll owe at the end of this plan. You'll still need to pay around £430.00. To cover this, you'll need to increase your payment to £118.00 a month.

What you owed for your bill dated 8 January 2025 £179.26      What you’ve paid - £276.00

7 Feb 2025: £46.00 7 Mar 2025: £46.00 7 Apr 2025: £46.00 7 May 2025: £46.00 9 Jun 2025: £46.00 7 Jul 2025: £46.00         Total charges from 8 Jan 2025 to 4 Jul 2025 + £154.84

Amount currently owed on your account = £58.10 The cost of what we think you’ll use over the next 7 months = £215.58    What you need to pay £273.68

WHY DIDN'T THEY INCREASE DD TO COVER EXCESS BUT ALLOWED US TO BUILD UP A MASSIVE DEFICIT?? ALL OTHER DEFICITS ARE AUTOMATICALLY CALCULATED AND DD ADJUSTED

 

PAYMENT PLAN 08/01/26

 

What you owed for your bill dated 7 July 2025 £58.10  What you’ve paid - £276.00

7 Aug 2025: £46.00 8 Sep 2025: £46.00 7 Oct 2025: £46.00  7 Nov 2025: £46.00 8 Dec 2025: £46.00 7 Jan 2026: £46.00

Total charges from 5 Jul 2025 to 7 Jan 2026 + £411.66  Amount currently owed on your account = £193.76

The cost of what we think you’ll use over the next 7 months =  £450.54

What you need to pay £644.30

 

DD TO INCREASE TO £107

 

 

Thanks for sticking with me so far, apologies re the formatting, I’m waiting for major surgery, not sleeping much and painkillers affecting my typing!!!

 

Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

middlewife

Update

I messaged TW to state that I can not read my meter as I'm disabled.

Initially they tried to claim the meter had been upgraded. This was untrue as the number on the meter and on the bills has been the same since 2019.

Eventually after some back and forth, they told me to contact the progressive meeting team. They initially claimed they could only relocate a meter from inside a property to outside, which is nonsensical, if you can move it from inside, then it's obviously possible to have a meter inside!

So, I will call them to see if they will agree to a survey. Whether it is free or not is another matter.....

middlewife

Interesting 40 minutes 3 way conversation. Amusingly they forgot to mute the call, so I could hear them arguing about whose responsibility it was, why they couldn't book the appointment and why the order number and job number doesn't show up on the booking system.

The survey will cost £72, which is about the same amount my bill has increased by, so fair enough. However I did point out that, regardless of disability, from my point of view, the meter is not fit for purpose and needs replacing.

Someone from metering will call (maybe) in 5 working days to take payment and book an appointment. She sounded surprised when I asked for contact details and reconfirmed the work order number and reference number.

They haven't yet explained on what date the meter was exchanged and what the old and new numbers are. As far as I'm concerned, it's been the same number since 2019, but if they did exchange it, that would explain why the readings appeared to go backwards in 2023......

middlewife

Finally got an admission they have never changed the meter, only after challenging them 3 times. I know they're in a call centre following an algorithm, but why make it all up?

Boohoo

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81856579#Comment_81856579

£72 for survey?

Is the £72 bill increase pm or over the year?

middlewife

£72 is for the survey. However my bill will go up next month by nearly the same amount. So, if I can get a smart meter, pay off the accumulated debt, then I will cancel the direct debit and ask to be billed 6 monthly in arrears and save the equivalent into a bank account, and submit monthly readings.

The stopcock feed is on an outside wall on the side of the house, so hopefully doable.