Thames water Meter gone AWOL

MattMattMattUK

middlewife said:

The bills are metered, not estimated and the correct number.

The thing is have all of them? Many people did not get their meters read for 2-3 years post lockdown and then had a catchup bill when actually read, making bills seem to surge.

middlewife said:

I have been reliably informed by the man who lives up the road and "knows everything (!)" that they don't take a visual reading any more but use a device to read the meter remotely. 

That is what I meant by the drive by van.

middlewife said:

You'd need the vision of a 6 year old to read this meter!!!

They are designed to be read remotely. When they have to look themselves they actually have a camera and torch on a stick to doit, but the zoom on a phone usually works well when used in combination with a torch and forcing the correct focus point. 

middlewife said:

I will get OH to bring up the account later and check the figures as our usage hasn't increased dramatically.

You need to look at the cubic litres rather than just the cost as costs have risen significantly in the last few years.

middlewife said:

Daylight is fading now, but I will try turning the water off under the sink and seeing if the numbers change (if I can read them) and then turning it back on and seeing if they change to detect a leak, thanks.

The longer the period the better, so ideally if you are going out for a day then 6+ hours would give you a better idea of if there is a leak.

middlewife

Thanks everyone, I will try again tomorrow with a grabby stick and tea towel! Getting some funny looks

 Now trying to sort out my 93 year old aunty's EDF bill, she's on Economy 7 but her 1 bedroom flat bills are as high as mine in a 4 bedroom house, 3 adults working from home and charging an EV!! So I will need to download all her half hourly readings for the last 4 months to look for missing data or corrupted data - had similar issues myself with Octopus when a firmware upgrade corrupted my smart meter readings, making it look like I was running a cannabis farm!! Oh the joys of smart (or not so smart) metering.... but that's for a different board if I get stuck.....

QrizB

middlewife said:

Thanks everyone, I will try again tomorrow with a grabby stick and tea towel! Getting some funny looks

Its's a hazard of being conscientious!

The main Energy board is the best place for electricity bill queries.

middlewife said:

Now trying to sort out my 93 year old aunty's EDF bill, she's on Economy 7 ...

Note that Economy 7 should be billed on meter index readings, not on half hourly data. This should save you a bit of time

MattMattMattUK

QrizB said:

The main Energy board is the best place for electricity bill queries.

middlewife said:

Now trying to sort out my 93 year old aunty's EDF bill, she's on Economy 7 ...

Note that Economy 7 should be billed on meter index readings, not on half hourly data. This should save you a bit of time

Agree with this.

Another thing to look out is that some old people turn off their storage heaters and use a bar heater/fan heater/oil filled radiator thinking it users less, but if that is on for twelve hours a day that could cost them £7-8 on E7 day rate, but around £2.50-3.00 if provided via a storage heater on night rate. 

middlewife

I'm giving up, spent another 45 minutes bailing out, then literally kneeling on the pavement (ouch my knees!!) drying it all off. Problem is it's too deep to read numbers with naked eye, binoculars are the wrong focal length, and because it's constantly immersed, the screen surface is damaged with limescale and any images taken with a phone are distorted. All the time we were outside the numbers didn't appear to change, so hopefully there isn't a leak. I will await an engineer visit and ask if they can mount it closer to the pavement as what use is a meter if it can't be read by the consumer. Next step later is to double check all the bills, work out the amount used v the projected future amount and look for any discrepancies. Thanks for all the help, will let you know how I get on, but heading for more orthopaedic surgery so definitely won't be kneeling on pavements any time Soon!!  The meter is bone dry, it's light reflecting off the damaged surface.....

born_again

Looks like
01993-12 in red

Boohoo

born_again said:

Looks like
01993-12 in red

That's what I make it to be also.

OP still hasn't said what the past meter readings are actual or estimated.

With the above reading ( if correct)at least they can work out how much they have used compared to the past year and then see if there's a leak or they are using the same but the prices have increased so the same usage but higher unit/daily charge.

middlewife

Evening all; it's taken me several hours, have downloaded all bills from 2019. I can see several problems. Unfortunately until a few days ago, OH was the sole account holder( I run the gas & electric, he does the water) and failed to read a warning on the bill in January 2024 stating we were heading for arrears and asking us to contact them to discuss the bill. As the DD amounts weren't increasing, he assumed everything was OK. These are the main problems according to my l o n g spreadsheet

1|) Estimated bills from April 21 until April 2023!!  During that period our estimated total use was 507 cubic metres; actual use the previous year was 170 cubic metres, so a more realistic estimate for 2 years would have been around 340 cubic metres...... so correspondingly, our wastewater disposal charges were also much too high for 2 years

2) We were sent a "revised bill" in July 23, presumably when someone realised no meter readings had been collected; this bill is incomprehensible as there are missing periods ; the bill includes the period from Oct 2022 to  July 2023 but is completely nonsensical, billing us for tiny amounts in metres cubed as follows

Sub - bill		usage	rate £	total charge £	standing charge
23/10/22 - 31/03/23	160 days	1.7582	1.5415	2.71	9.23
01/04/23 - 22/04/23	22 days	0.2418	1.776	0.43	1.42
23/04/23 - 21/07/23	90 days	1	1.776	1.78	5.79

so a total of around 3 cubic metres for 9 months.........clearly wrong

3) The account statements on each bill vary wildly between being £562 in credit in July 23 due to the "revised bill" somehow stating we had only used 3 cubic metres between Oct 22 and July 23 - clearly wrong, although they may have been trying to offset the previous high estimate bills

4) We had one very high bill  July 24 to Jan 25 when our usage shot up to 146 cubic metres, but the following 6 month period usage drops to a much lower 28 cubic metres; so I am not sure what is going on. Certainly the meter didn't appear to be moving while we were outside trying to clean it up and read it for about an hour, so don't think there is a leak 

I have requested an engineer visit to "locate the meter"; however, I assume that I have a right to be able to actually read the damn meter, if I was being cynical, I'd say that TW don't make it easy and hope people won't send them meter readings; not sure if the meter can be moved as I am definitely going to submit manual readings but need to actually be able to read the meter.

Our projected bill is awful, partly because the price per cubic metre has shot up from 1.38 in 2020 to 2.47; and wastewater charges have also increased from 89p to 1.548.  We receive a small rebate each month as we are on a shared drain, 

our water use (in Litres) went up July 24 to Jan 25 = 772L
Jan 25 to July 25  157L
July 25 to Jan 26  449 L   an increase of 186% - but compared with what?

The previous year
July 23 to Jan 24   1711L
Jan 24 to July 24   1655L
Jul 24 to Jan 25      3090   this time only "up" by 87% 

The real work of fiction was the projected bill dated Jan 24, based on  water usage for a retrospective 2 year period including the ESTIMATED bill

October 2020 to April 21 2484L
April 21 to July 23 a NONSENSICAL 1869L covering over 2 years!!
July 23 to Jan 24      1711L   mysteriously, our usage over that period was calculated as reduced by 8%

Now, I may have failed my maths GCSE, but it seems to me that TW base their projected future use estimates on magic fairy dust. How on earth can they calculate expected future use when they can't be bothered to read the meter for 2 years?  I accept that we should have submitted readings, and I fully intend to do so, but it is not an easy process, bailing out gallons of water when disabled and unable to kneel on the pavement. Gas and electric meters are childs play by comparison....... your thoughts please?

Boohoo

middlewife said:

Evening all; it's taken me several hours, have downloaded all bills from 2019. I can see several problems. Unfortunately until a few days ago, OH was the sole account holder( I run the gas & electric, he does the water) and failed to read a warning on the bill in January 2024 stating we were heading for arrears and asking us to contact them to discuss the bill. As the DD amounts weren't increasing, he assumed everything was OK. These are the main problems according to my l o n g spreadsheet

1|) Estimated bills from April 21 until April 2023!!  During that period our estimated total use was 507 cubic metres; actual use the previous year was 170 cubic metres, so a more realistic estimate for 2 years would have been around 340 cubic metres...... so correspondingly, our wastewater disposal charges were also much too high for 2 years

2) We were sent a "revised bill" in July 23, presumably when someone realised no meter readings had been collected; this bill is incomprehensible as there are missing periods ; the bill includes the period from Oct 2022 to  July 2023 but is completely nonsensical, billing us for tiny amounts in metres cubed as follows

Sub - bill		usage	rate £	total charge £	standing charge
23/10/22 - 31/03/23	160 days	1.7582	1.5415	2.71	9.23
01/04/23 - 22/04/23	22 days	0.2418	1.776	0.43	1.42
23/04/23 - 21/07/23	90 days	1	1.776	1.78	5.79

so a total of around 3 cubic metres for 9 months.........clearly wrong

3) The account statements on each bill vary wildly between being £562 in credit in July 23 due to the "revised bill" somehow stating we had only used 3 cubic metres between Oct 22 and July 23 - clearly wrong, although they may have been trying to offset the previous high estimate bills

4) We had one very high bill  July 24 to Jan 25 when our usage shot up to 146 cubic metres, but the following 6 month period usage drops to a much lower 28 cubic metres; so I am not sure what is going on. Certainly the meter didn't appear to be moving while we were outside trying to clean it up and read it for about an hour, so don't think there is a leak 

I have requested an engineer visit to "locate the meter"; however, I assume that I have a right to be able to actually read the damn meter, if I was being cynical, I'd say that TW don't make it easy and hope people won't send them meter readings; not sure if the meter can be moved as I am definitely going to submit manual readings but need to actually be able to read the meter.

Our projected bill is awful, partly because the price per cubic metre has shot up from 1.38 in 2020 to 2.47; and wastewater charges have also increased from 89p to 1.548.  We receive a small rebate each month as we are on a shared drain, 

our water use (in Litres) went up July 24 to Jan 25 = 772L
Jan 25 to July 25  157L
July 25 to Jan 26  449 L   an increase of 186% - but compared with what?

The previous year
July 23 to Jan 24   1711L
Jan 24 to July 24   1655L
Jul 24 to Jan 25      3090   this time only "up" by 87% 

The real work of fiction was the projected bill dated Jan 24, based on  water usage for a retrospective 2 year period including the ESTIMATED bill

October 2020 to April 21 2484L
April 21 to July 23 a NONSENSICAL 1869L covering over 2 years!!
July 23 to Jan 24      1711L   mysteriously, our usage over that period was calculated as reduced by 8%

Now, I may have failed my maths GCSE, but it seems to me that TW base their projected future use estimates on magic fairy dust. How on earth can they calculate expected future use when they can't be bothered to read the meter for 2 years?  I accept that we should have submitted readings, and I fully intend to do so, but it is not an easy process, bailing out gallons of water when disabled and unable to kneel on the pavement. Gas and electric meters are childs play by comparison....... your thoughts please?

Does the reading that born_again and I think the meter says from your photo fit into the TW readings?

Can you put up the readings from the bills with exactly what TW have put including actual and estimated and the dates.

 How much were you paying p/m DD to TW ?

Please don't take this the wrong way but does your OH have any control of other bill/utilities that you don't because if yes you may need to check them.

middlewife

Thanks for reply, I'll be back later with the figures late afternoon