Chargeback when an online retailer refuses to cover return costs of faulty items

born_again

Cat08 said:

born_again said:

Cat08 said:

Woodstok2000 said:

Their terms and conditions clearly state they'll cover postage if the item is faulty, but as others have said how are you going to force compliance when they're just a drop shipper from China. 

They are powered by shopify though, so you could try complaining via them to see if it kicks things along at all?

The last option is to pay for the return and then do a charge back for the costs including postage if they refuse to refund it.

Thank you, yes, this is why I've asked for chargeback, because I know they won't comply. 

Sorry but a customer knowing is not going to cut it.. You need hard proof. A your opinion is never going to cut it with Mastercard.

I have hard proof. An extensive email trail where they state categorically they will not cover return postage. 

That proves nothing other than you have to pay returns cost. They are not saying that they will not take it back.
A retailer can charge for the return of goods if faulty. They can then refund the cost if goods are faulty.

Woodstok2000

This is going round in circles. The company in China do not care about your rights, they will never cover your shipping costs.No one can force them to do this.

Chargeback is not a right. It is a voluntary scheme with specific rules that you need to follow. Lloyds do not care who pays for the return, you just need to return the goods if you want to proceed.  Refer to my previous post for your three options.

This isn't fair, or right, but it's the reality of dealing with these drop-ship companies. 

Good luck, whatever you end up doing.

Cat08

eskbanker said:

Cat08 said:

@eskbanker yes indeed, hence I asked the bank I've been with for the past 40 years for help. The same bank that has previously helped me with a chargeback claim for significantly more money and did not require me to the return the item in that instance. 

As above, that doesn't actually set some sort of precedent, so if they're telling you in this case that chargeback is conditional on returning the goods then I don't see that you have any grounds on which to challenge that?

eskbanker said:

Cat08 said:

@eskbanker yes indeed, hence I asked the bank I've been with for the past 40 years for help. The same bank that has previously helped me with a chargeback claim for significantly more money and did not require me to the return the item in that instance. 

As above, that doesn't actually set some sort of precedent, so if they're telling you in this case that chargeback is conditional on returning the goods then I don't see that you have any grounds on which to challenge that?

The grounds I have is that according to CRA 2015, the seller should pay to return items that are not as described and of very poor quality. I have email proof that they are refusing to cover return costs. 

eskbanker

Cat08 said:

eskbanker said:

Cat08 said:

@eskbanker yes indeed, hence I asked the bank I've been with for the past 40 years for help. The same bank that has previously helped me with a chargeback claim for significantly more money and did not require me to the return the item in that instance. 

As above, that doesn't actually set some sort of precedent, so if they're telling you in this case that chargeback is conditional on returning the goods then I don't see that you have any grounds on which to challenge that?

The grounds I have is that according to CRA 2015, the seller should pay to return items that are not as described and of very poor quality. I have email proof that they are refusing to cover return costs. 

As above, chargeback processes and legal rights are two separate issues, so asserting that the retailer is acting unlawfully doesn't in itself affect the chargeback eligibility.

Cat08

born_again said:

Cat08 said:

born_again said:

Cat08 said:

Woodstok2000 said:

Their terms and conditions clearly state they'll cover postage if the item is faulty, but as others have said how are you going to force compliance when they're just a drop shipper from China. 

They are powered by shopify though, so you could try complaining via them to see if it kicks things along at all?

The last option is to pay for the return and then do a charge back for the costs including postage if they refuse to refund it.

Thank you, yes, this is why I've asked for chargeback, because I know they won't comply. 

Sorry but a customer knowing is not going to cut it.. You need hard proof. A your opinion is never going to cut it with Mastercard.

I have hard proof. An extensive email trail where they state categorically they will not cover return postage. 

That proves nothing other than you have to pay returns cost. They are not saying that they will not take it back.
A retailer can charge for the return of goods if faulty. They can then refund the cost if goods are faulty.

They cannot charge for the return of faulty goods, the Which website has a letter template that explicitly states this which I have used. 

Cat08

Woodstok2000 said:

This is going round in circles. The company in China do not care about your rights, they will never cover your shipping costs.No one can force them to do this.

Chargeback is not a right. It is a voluntary scheme with specific rules that you need to follow. Lloyds do not care who pays for the return, you just need to return the goods if you want to proceed.  Refer to my previous post for your three options.

This isn't fair, or right, but it's the reality of dealing with these drop-ship companies. 

Good luck, whatever you end up doing.

Thank you, and no, it is not fair or right. And disturbing that a bank can make a chargeback claim without return of goods in some instances, but not others. Also disturbing that a bank is not interested in protecting its customers from these kinds of situations and from retailers who fail to comply with uk law. 

Cat08

eskbanker said:

Cat08 said:

eskbanker said:

Cat08 said:

@eskbanker yes indeed, hence I asked the bank I've been with for the past 40 years for help. The same bank that has previously helped me with a chargeback claim for significantly more money and did not require me to the return the item in that instance. 

As above, that doesn't actually set some sort of precedent, so if they're telling you in this case that chargeback is conditional on returning the goods then I don't see that you have any grounds on which to challenge that?

The grounds I have is that according to CRA 2015, the seller should pay to return items that are not as described and of very poor quality. I have email proof that they are refusing to cover return costs. 

As above, chargeback processes and legal rights are two separate issues, so asserting that the retailer is acting unlawfully doesn't in itself affect the chargeback eligibility.

Even so, you would hope that the bank you have been with for 40+ years would be interested in protecting its customers from such unlawful practice, especially when I have an email trail to prove it (proof which Lloyds did not even ask for).

Isthisforreal99

Disturbing? That you got lucky once - and without the facts of that case you might be comparing apples and oranges.

Maybe it's customers who need protecting from themselves. It took 2 minutes to establish you were ordering from China.

born_again

Cat08 said:

born_again said:

Cat08 said:

born_again said:

Cat08 said:

Woodstok2000 said:

Their terms and conditions clearly state they'll cover postage if the item is faulty, but as others have said how are you going to force compliance when they're just a drop shipper from China. 

They are powered by shopify though, so you could try complaining via them to see if it kicks things along at all?

The last option is to pay for the return and then do a charge back for the costs including postage if they refuse to refund it.

Thank you, yes, this is why I've asked for chargeback, because I know they won't comply. 

Sorry but a customer knowing is not going to cut it.. You need hard proof. A your opinion is never going to cut it with Mastercard.

I have hard proof. An extensive email trail where they state categorically they will not cover return postage. 

That proves nothing other than you have to pay returns cost. They are not saying that they will not take it back.
A retailer can charge for the return of goods if faulty. They can then refund the cost if goods are faulty.

They cannot charge for the return of faulty goods, the Which website has a letter template that explicitly states this which I have used. 

Which' can state what they like, as they are talking about UK based. You are not dealing with a UK company. So any terms are based on where they are. Not where you are. 
One thing people forget with the internet. Where the company is based is where any rights are. Not where you are. 

Which is why we are now seeing a glut of posts about exactly the same issue. Which I'm sure as every previous  year there will be far more to come.
Perhaps something for ML to do a show all about just before Christmas (too late this year)

I'm sorry you are in this situation, but Lloyds are the one you need to convince here, not us & nothing you have posted in anyway says to me that you have enough evidence for me to take it forward, without a massive risk that they will just contest & you will be re-debited (end of the process)

Due diligence is the key here before buying anything online. Know who you are dealing with, where they are based & what their T/C & returns policies are. If they are not clear. Then it's a red flag & more on 👍

MattMattMattUK

Cat08 said:

eskbanker said:

Cat08 said:

eskbanker said:

Cat08 said:

@eskbanker yes indeed, hence I asked the bank I've been with for the past 40 years for help. The same bank that has previously helped me with a chargeback claim for significantly more money and did not require me to the return the item in that instance. 

As above, that doesn't actually set some sort of precedent, so if they're telling you in this case that chargeback is conditional on returning the goods then I don't see that you have any grounds on which to challenge that?

The grounds I have is that according to CRA 2015, the seller should pay to return items that are not as described and of very poor quality. I have email proof that they are refusing to cover return costs. 

As above, chargeback processes and legal rights are two separate issues, so asserting that the retailer is acting unlawfully doesn't in itself affect the chargeback eligibility.

Even so, you would hope that the bank you have been with for 40+ years would be interested in protecting its customers from such unlawful practice, especially when I have an email trail to prove it (proof which Lloyds did not even ask for).

Lloyds are required to process any Chargeback request in accordance with the rules set out by Visa, they are not allowed to deviate from that process, it is condition of them being allowed to issue cards.

You bought something from a Chinese company, you seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the situation you are in, of the rules and regulations that apply. Why do you think the bank should refund you out of their own pocket (in reality the pocket of their other customers and shareholders)?