Chargeback when an online retailer refuses to cover return costs of faulty items

powerful_Rogue

Cat08 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Reviews are poor, domain registered only 3 months ago.

I can't imagine the site will be around past Christmas.

I would try and get them to increase the 15% refund and accept it. Depsite what it says on the site, this won't be a UK company and you'll have zero joy regarding any legal action.

Yes absolutely, it seems to be a potential scam which is why I'm trying to make a chargeback claim. Since they purport to be based in the uk and market to uk sellers they must abide by uk consumer law. I have an email trail proving they are refusing to pay for return postage, which they must in the case of faulty goods. Yet Lloyds are still saying I must return the item before they initiate chargeback. They are effectively colluding with the seller in my view. 

How are you going to enforce that if they are based in China?

Woodstok2000

Their terms and conditions clearly state they'll cover postage if the item is faulty, but as others have said how are you going to force compliance when they're just a drop shipper from China. 

They are powered by shopify though, so you could try complaining via them to see if it kicks things along at all?

The last option is to pay for the return and then do a charge back for the costs including postage if they refuse to refund it.

powerful_Rogue

Woodstok2000 said:

Their terms and conditions clearly state they'll cover postage if the item is faulty, but as others have said how are you going to force compliance when they're just a drop shipper from China. 

They are powered by shopify though, so you could try complaining via them to see if it kicks things along at all?

The last option is to pay for the return and then do a charge back for the costs including postage if they refuse to refund it.

The goods will never arrive back to the seller in China. As such, chargeback will fail.

Woodstok2000

powerful_Rogue said:

Woodstok2000 said:

Their terms and conditions clearly state they'll cover postage if the item is faulty, but as others have said how are you going to force compliance when they're just a drop shipper from China. 

They are powered by shopify though, so you could try complaining via them to see if it kicks things along at all?

The last option is to pay for the return and then do a charge back for the costs including postage if they refuse to refund it.

The goods will never arrive back to the seller in China. As such, chargeback will fail.

Definitely a possibility, at which point you claim your money back via the insured shipping that you cunningly used, with a suitable uplift to cover your costs maybe.  

There's lots of possible routes to get some money back here,but they are all slow and will take some effort with a risk of no returns.  The drop shippers know this, and their business model is based on most people accepting the discount they offer. I would negotiate to get as high as possible and then take it as a lesson learned.

Cat08

MattMattMattUK said:

Cat08 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Reviews are poor, domain registered only 3 months ago.

I can't imagine the site will be around past Christmas.

I would try and get them to increase the 15% refund and accept it. Depsite what it says on the site, this won't be a UK company and you'll have zero joy regarding any legal action.

Yes absolutely, it seems to be a potential scam which is why I'm trying to make a chargeback claim. 

I would say less a scam as such, more just the cheap rubbish that comes out of China, sometimes it is the same stuff, other times it is very carefully photographed to look far better than it is. 

Cat08 said:
 Since they purport to be based in the uk and market to uk sellers they must abide by uk consumer law.

They do not "purport to be based in the UK", their terms and conditions and refund policy clearly state that they are not based in the UK. UK Consumer Rights law applies to businesses legally based in the UK, just because they sell to the UK market does not mean the CRA applies.

Cat08 said:
I have an email trail proving they are refusing to pay for return postage, which they must in the case of faulty goods. 

I would argue that it is not a case of the goods being faulty, but of you not being happy with the quality, that is different. 

Cat08 said:
Yet Lloyds are still saying I must return the item before they initiate chargeback. They are effectively colluding with the seller in my view. 

That might be your view, but the rules for Chargeback are very prescriptive, laid out by the card network. What potentially complicates things even more is that from the look of the website there is an intermediary card processor so that might further preclude the possibility of a successful chargeback. 

I think you will have to chalk this one up to experience, I cannot see Lloyds changing their mind and retuning the item to China will cost more than it is worth. 

The jacket is completely different to the one shown and described on their website, although they have now removed it from the site. My understanding is that CRA 2015 applies to any seller marketing specifically to uk customers, irrespective of where they are based. I should not have to pay to return it. I think providing a uk address would make many people reasonably think they had a uk base. When I first contacted them asking for a refund they asked for more money to send me another item instead. I have used chargeback with Lloyds successfully in the past and not had to return goods. 

Cat08

born_again said:

Cat08 said:

Hi all,

Lloyds bank are refusing to make a chargeback claim for me for an item I bought on 1st December from an online retailer (ostensibly based in the UK) because I still have the item (a jacket) in question. The item is not at all as described and not fit for purpose. The retailer has refused to cover the costs of returning the item to China and insisted I pay these costs myself. I have used the template from the 'Which' website stating that under UK consumer law, they must cover the postage. They are still refusing to do so, referencing their returns policy and insisting I must pay, and telling me that since the process of shipping the item back to China could take many weeks, I should accept a 15% refund from them and keep the item. My understanding is that the UK Consumer Rights Act 2015 overrides any policy they may have if the goods are faulty, and they must pay for the return.

I explained this to Lloyds and they said that since I still have the item and the retailer's policy states I must return the item for a refund, they cannot make the chargeback. It seems to me that the retailer is clearly breaking UK consumer law by refusing to pay for the return and trying to manipulate me into accepting a 15% refund instead. I feel backed into a corner and would appreciate any help with this. Thank you, Charlotte 

Unless you can get something stating that they will not accept the return Lloyds are right.

Drop shipper. At best. Did you google the UK address? (It's a house) Did you check the Tel No as BR is not a 020 code

Did you check T/C & Returns?

Identity of Seller
Yiwu Cujia Trading Co., Ltd.
Room 1809-3, 18th Floor, Global Building, No. 168, Financial Sixth Street, Financial Business
District, Futian Street, Yiwu City, Jinhua, China

1. Send the parcel: Ship the package with track & trace to the following address: Building 4, 4th Floor, No. 58 Baiye Road, Dongguan, Guangdong Province, 523000, China

Uk consumer law still applies to this as they are marketing to uk customers. I have used chargeback before with Lloyds and not had to return goods. 

MattMattMattUK

Cat08 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Cat08 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Reviews are poor, domain registered only 3 months ago.

I can't imagine the site will be around past Christmas.

I would try and get them to increase the 15% refund and accept it. Depsite what it says on the site, this won't be a UK company and you'll have zero joy regarding any legal action.

Yes absolutely, it seems to be a potential scam which is why I'm trying to make a chargeback claim. 

I would say less a scam as such, more just the cheap rubbish that comes out of China, sometimes it is the same stuff, other times it is very carefully photographed to look far better than it is. 

Cat08 said:
 Since they purport to be based in the uk and market to uk sellers they must abide by uk consumer law.

They do not "purport to be based in the UK", their terms and conditions and refund policy clearly state that they are not based in the UK. UK Consumer Rights law applies to businesses legally based in the UK, just because they sell to the UK market does not mean the CRA applies.

Cat08 said:
I have an email trail proving they are refusing to pay for return postage, which they must in the case of faulty goods. 

I would argue that it is not a case of the goods being faulty, but of you not being happy with the quality, that is different. 

Cat08 said:
Yet Lloyds are still saying I must return the item before they initiate chargeback. They are effectively colluding with the seller in my view. 

That might be your view, but the rules for Chargeback are very prescriptive, laid out by the card network. What potentially complicates things even more is that from the look of the website there is an intermediary card processor so that might further preclude the possibility of a successful chargeback. 

I think you will have to chalk this one up to experience, I cannot see Lloyds changing their mind and retuning the item to China will cost more than it is worth. 

The jacket is completely different to the one shown and described on their website, although they have now removed it from the site. My understanding is that CRA 2015 applies to any seller marketing specifically to uk customers, irrespective of where they are based. I should not have to pay to return it. I think providing a uk address would make many people reasonably think they had a uk base. When I first contacted them asking for a refund they asked for more money to send me another item instead. I have used chargeback with Lloyds successfully in the past and not had to return goods. 

Your understanding is wrong.

powerful_Rogue

Cat08 said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Cat08 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Reviews are poor, domain registered only 3 months ago.

I can't imagine the site will be around past Christmas.

I would try and get them to increase the 15% refund and accept it. Depsite what it says on the site, this won't be a UK company and you'll have zero joy regarding any legal action.

Yes absolutely, it seems to be a potential scam which is why I'm trying to make a chargeback claim. 

I would say less a scam as such, more just the cheap rubbish that comes out of China, sometimes it is the same stuff, other times it is very carefully photographed to look far better than it is. 

Cat08 said:
 Since they purport to be based in the uk and market to uk sellers they must abide by uk consumer law.

They do not "purport to be based in the UK", their terms and conditions and refund policy clearly state that they are not based in the UK. UK Consumer Rights law applies to businesses legally based in the UK, just because they sell to the UK market does not mean the CRA applies.

Cat08 said:
I have an email trail proving they are refusing to pay for return postage, which they must in the case of faulty goods. 

I would argue that it is not a case of the goods being faulty, but of you not being happy with the quality, that is different. 

Cat08 said:
Yet Lloyds are still saying I must return the item before they initiate chargeback. They are effectively colluding with the seller in my view. 

That might be your view, but the rules for Chargeback are very prescriptive, laid out by the card network. What potentially complicates things even more is that from the look of the website there is an intermediary card processor so that might further preclude the possibility of a successful chargeback. 

I think you will have to chalk this one up to experience, I cannot see Lloyds changing their mind and retuning the item to China will cost more than it is worth. 

The jacket is completely different to the one shown and described on their website, although they have now removed it from the site. My understanding is that CRA 2015 applies to any seller marketing specifically to uk customers, irrespective of where they are based. I should not have to pay to return it. I think providing a uk address would make many people reasonably think they had a uk base. When I first contacted them asking for a refund they asked for more money to send me another item instead. I have used chargeback with Lloyds successfully in the past and not had to return goods. 

You keep repeating that, however even if it did apply, how are you going to enforce it against a company based in China?

Cat08

powerful_Rogue said:

Cat08 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Reviews are poor, domain registered only 3 months ago.

I can't imagine the site will be around past Christmas.

I would try and get them to increase the 15% refund and accept it. Depsite what it says on the site, this won't be a UK company and you'll have zero joy regarding any legal action.

Yes absolutely, it seems to be a potential scam which is why I'm trying to make a chargeback claim. Since they purport to be based in the uk and market to uk sellers they must abide by uk consumer law. I have an email trail proving they are refusing to pay for return postage, which they must in the case of faulty goods. Yet Lloyds are still saying I must return the item before they initiate chargeback. They are effectively colluding with the seller in my view. 

How are you going to enforce that if they are based in China?

It doesn't matter if they are based outside the uk, they are marketing to uk customers and CRA applies. But in practical terms, this is why I asked for chargeback, as I have proof they are refusing to pay for the return, which by uk law they must. They even state they will abide by uk law on their website. 

powerful_Rogue

Cat08 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Cat08 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Reviews are poor, domain registered only 3 months ago.

I can't imagine the site will be around past Christmas.

I would try and get them to increase the 15% refund and accept it. Depsite what it says on the site, this won't be a UK company and you'll have zero joy regarding any legal action.

Yes absolutely, it seems to be a potential scam which is why I'm trying to make a chargeback claim. Since they purport to be based in the uk and market to uk sellers they must abide by uk consumer law. I have an email trail proving they are refusing to pay for return postage, which they must in the case of faulty goods. Yet Lloyds are still saying I must return the item before they initiate chargeback. They are effectively colluding with the seller in my view. 

How are you going to enforce that if they are based in China?

It doesn't matter if they are based outside the uk, they are marketing to uk customers and CRA applies. But in practical terms, this is why I asked for chargeback, as I have proof they are refusing to pay for the return, which by uk law they must. They even state they will abide by uk law on their website. 

Chargeback doesn't follow the law though. It's a totally seperate scheme run by Visa/Mastercard with their own conditions. One being you need to return the goods.

Clearly it does matter that they are based outside of the UK, because you will struggle to enforce any legal remedies.

I could set up a website now, saying it's governed by the laws of the DPRK. Doesn't mean it is.