Chargeback when an online retailer refuses to cover return costs of faulty items

Cat08

eskbanker said:

Cat08 said:

It seems to me that the retailer is clearly breaking UK consumer law

As above, it may not apply to them - who are they?

They are called Jones & Smith and have an address in Bognor Regis on their home page. 

user1977

Cat08 said:

Jenni_D said:

UK Consumer Rights only apply if the seller is based in the UK. (If based in the EU then there are similar consumer rights). If the retailer is based in China (or elsewhere) then the laws of that country apply.

A website ending in .co.uk does not mean it is a UK company.

The seller is called Jones & Smith and their address is in Bognor Regis on the home page of their website. The clothing they sell is shipped from China it seems but they purport to be based in England.

From https://jonesandsmith.co.uk/pages/terms-and-conditions :

"Identity of Seller
Yiwu Cujia Trading Co., Ltd.
Room 1809-3, 18th Floor, Global Building, No. 168, Financial Sixth Street, Financial Business
District, Futian Street, Yiwu City, Jinhua, China"

Though the terms also say that UK law applies.

Cat08

Yes my understanding is that any overseas seller that actively markets towards and deals with UK customers must comply with UK consumer law.

eskbanker

Their terms also state that they'll cover the cost of returning faulty goods:

If the item is damaged, faulty, or incorrectly delivered, we will of course cover the return costs. In this case, please contact our support team immediately with photo(s) of the item and your order number.

https://jonesandsmith.co.uk/policies/refund-policy

However, do they agree with your assertion that "The item is not at all as described and not fit for purpose", and does this just mean that it's of poorer quality than you inferred from photos, etc, or are there demonstrable flaws?  

Cat08

Hi @eskbanker I can't seem to reply to you directly but will comment here, the item has demonstrable flaws, you can literally see through the fabric it is so thin, as shown in the photos I sent them alongside the picture from their website for comparison. It is also a totally different shade and fabric type to the one pictured and described on their website, which they have since removed as I have been emailing back and forth with them, They had no intention of paying for postage to return it, the first email from their 'support team' asked me for more money for them to send me another item of the same value, which of course I would not agree to having seen the terrible quality of their products.

powerful_Rogue

Reviews are poor, domain registered only 3 months ago.

I can't imagine the site will be around past Christmas.

I would try and get them to increase the 15% refund and accept it. Depsite what it says on the site, this won't be a UK company and you'll have zero joy regarding any legal action.

Cat08

powerful_Rogue said:

Reviews are poor, domain registered only 3 months ago.

I can't imagine the site will be around past Christmas.

I would try and get them to increase the 15% refund and accept it. Depsite what it says on the site, this won't be a UK company and you'll have zero joy regarding any legal action.

Yes absolutely, it seems to be a potential scam which is why I'm trying to make a chargeback claim. Since they purport to be based in the uk and market to uk sellers they must abide by uk consumer law. I have an email trail proving they are refusing to pay for return postage, which they must in the case of faulty goods. Yet Lloyds are still saying I must return the item before they initiate chargeback. They are effectively colluding with the seller in my view. 

Cat08

Cat08 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Reviews are poor, domain registered only 3 months ago.

I can't imagine the site will be around past Christmas.

I would try and get them to increase the 15% refund and accept it. Depsite what it says on the site, this won't be a UK company and you'll have zero joy regarding any legal action.

Yes absolutely, it seems to be a potential scam which is why I'm trying to make a chargeback claim. Since they purport to be based in the uk and market to uk sellers they must abide by uk consumer law. I have an email trail proving they are refusing to pay for return postage, which they must in the case of faulty goods. Yet Lloyds are still saying I must return the item before they initiate chargeback. They are effectively colluding with the seller in my view. 

*market to uk customers not sellers argh I'm tired

born_again

Cat08 said:

Hi all,

Lloyds bank are refusing to make a chargeback claim for me for an item I bought on 1st December from an online retailer (ostensibly based in the UK) because I still have the item (a jacket) in question. The item is not at all as described and not fit for purpose. The retailer has refused to cover the costs of returning the item to China and insisted I pay these costs myself. I have used the template from the 'Which' website stating that under UK consumer law, they must cover the postage. They are still refusing to do so, referencing their returns policy and insisting I must pay, and telling me that since the process of shipping the item back to China could take many weeks, I should accept a 15% refund from them and keep the item. My understanding is that the UK Consumer Rights Act 2015 overrides any policy they may have if the goods are faulty, and they must pay for the return.

I explained this to Lloyds and they said that since I still have the item and the retailer's policy states I must return the item for a refund, they cannot make the chargeback. It seems to me that the retailer is clearly breaking UK consumer law by refusing to pay for the return and trying to manipulate me into accepting a 15% refund instead. I feel backed into a corner and would appreciate any help with this. Thank you, Charlotte 

Unless you can get something stating that they will not accept the return Lloyds are right.

Drop shipper. At best. Did you google the UK address? (It's a house) Did you check the Tel No as BR is not a 020 code

Did you check T/C & Returns?

Identity of Seller
Yiwu Cujia Trading Co., Ltd.
Room 1809-3, 18th Floor, Global Building, No. 168, Financial Sixth Street, Financial Business
District, Futian Street, Yiwu City, Jinhua, China

1. Send the parcel: Ship the package with track & trace to the following address: Building 4, 4th Floor, No. 58 Baiye Road, Dongguan, Guangdong Province, 523000, China

MattMattMattUK

Cat08 said:

powerful_Rogue said:

Reviews are poor, domain registered only 3 months ago.

I can't imagine the site will be around past Christmas.

I would try and get them to increase the 15% refund and accept it. Depsite what it says on the site, this won't be a UK company and you'll have zero joy regarding any legal action.

Yes absolutely, it seems to be a potential scam which is why I'm trying to make a chargeback claim. 

I would say less a scam as such, more just the cheap rubbish that comes out of China, sometimes it is the same stuff, other times it is very carefully photographed to look far better than it is. 

Cat08 said:
 Since they purport to be based in the uk and market to uk sellers they must abide by uk consumer law.

They do not "purport to be based in the UK", their terms and conditions and refund policy clearly state that they are not based in the UK. UK Consumer Rights law applies to businesses legally based in the UK, just because they sell to the UK market does not mean the CRA applies.

Cat08 said:
I have an email trail proving they are refusing to pay for return postage, which they must in the case of faulty goods. 

I would argue that it is not a case of the goods being faulty, but of you not being happy with the quality, that is different. 

Cat08 said:
Yet Lloyds are still saying I must return the item before they initiate chargeback. They are effectively colluding with the seller in my view. 

That might be your view, but the rules for Chargeback are very prescriptive, laid out by the card network. What potentially complicates things even more is that from the look of the website there is an intermediary card processor so that might further preclude the possibility of a successful chargeback. 

I think you will have to chalk this one up to experience, I cannot see Lloyds changing their mind and retuning the item to China will cost more than it is worth.