How will they implement 3p per mile charges for driving EV’s ?

WellKnownSid

born_again said:

WellKnownSid said:

Add in a small admin charge for your electricity company to snitch on you ('green energy usage statistics') and random sampling of manufacturer telematics and it'll be a slam dunk IMHO.

Except you are missing that like ICE & their MPG some cars are more efficient than others. 

Excuse me sir, you claimed to cover just 500 miles last year but by our calculations you used 3,500kWh extra on your bill. I’m sure you won’t mind us checking why your car is 21 times less efficient than expected 😅

sheenas

WellKnownSid said:

born_again said:

WellKnownSid said:

Add in a small admin charge for your electricity company to snitch on you ('green energy usage statistics') and random sampling of manufacturer telematics and it'll be a slam dunk IMHO.

Except you are missing that like ICE & their MPG some cars are more efficient than others. 

Excuse me sir, you claimed to cover just 500 miles last year but by our calculations you used 3,500kWh extra on your bill. I’m sure you won’t mind us checking why your car is 21 times less efficient than expected 😅

Yes my friend uses my charger sometimes. Lots
of issues with the system. I think a weight based VED would be simpler.

WellKnownSid

MouldyOldDough said:

Remember that if you drive 10,000 miles per year – that’s an extra £300 pa to be found at MOT time – £900 after 3 years or when they decide to check – but you can be sure that someone will invent a device to roll back the mileage so we will all present cars with 500 miles per annum.

This is not going to help the government, get people off ICE and on to EV’s and is going to artificially push up 2nd hand values of good low emission ICE's

To answer the question - 3p per mile is not going to bring the cost of EV ownership to anywhere near the level of a low emission ICE car for the majority of car owners in this country who have the possibility of off street parking (35% of households lack a drive but 21% of households don’t own a car).

Our EV was bought to replace a car covering 1,600 miles between its last two MoTs. It ended up doing 8,000 miles in the first year and 14,000 in the second - 3p per mile is too small a figure to have a material difference in the thousands we have saved if you include the EV electricity tariff.

facade

WellKnownSid said:

facade said:

WellKnownSid said:

facade said:

An honesty system of reporting costs nothing, and will rake in the cash.

Like TV licensing.  Stick a load of Transit vans around the A-roads and motorways of Britain and pay some bloggers to socialise the £10,000 fines for implausible mileage declarations.

There is already a fleet of vans around the country, that just needs the stickers changing from "Safety Camera Unit" to "Safety & Revenue Camera Unit"

Add in a small admin charge for your electricity company to snitch on you ('green energy usage statistics') and random sampling of manufacturer telematics and it'll be a slam dunk IMHO.

I thought the idea was a near zero cost system to ensure reasonable compliance with the honesty system? (Someone has to pay for and apply those stickers)

The point being that like a TV detector van, a Mileage Revenue Detector Van doesn't actually need to work, only for enough people to believe that it does.

So smartmeter snitching could be added to the list of "ways we can catch mileage cheats" without actually spending on implementing it. (But a small extra charge for smart meter users might be welcomed by electricity companies )

MattMattMattUK

If the government were being rational it would drop this and cover the cost from general taxation, raising income tax to cover once fuel duty dwindles out, so instead I expect an overly complicated system that costs billions to administer and is easy for the honest to avoid.

Mildly_Miffed

MattMattMattUK said:

If the government were being rational it would drop this and cover the cost from general taxation, raising income tax to cover once fuel duty dwindles out, so instead I expect an overly complicated system that costs billions to administer and is easy for the honest to avoid.

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/fuel-duties/
Fuel duty raises £25bn/year, 2% of all government revenue, £850/household on average.
...and falling.

The only proper way to do any per-mile pricing is through a comprehensive ANPR network, and that simply doesn't exist, and won't do without a LOT of investment.
2,300 miles of motorway
5,300 miles of trunk A-road (nationally managed)
24,300 miles of non-trunk A-road (local authority managed)
19,000 miles of B-road
195,000 miles of C- and unclassified road.

ANPR is already fairly comprehensive on the major roads, so it's "just" a back-end project. Start to price just on those, though, and you move traffic off the primary network onto the secondary, which is the exact opposite of what you want to do for better traffic flow.

I expect the results of the consultation will result in some awkward conversations between No.11 and the Dept of Transport, and the current plan will not come to pass.

Cornucopia

I'm not sure a road usage approach works - if it did, they would be policing SORN with it already (and it is much better suited to that).

Comparisons to the TV Licence don't really work, either, because that is a complete can of worms all of its own. 

MattMattMattUK

Mildly_Miffed said:

MattMattMattUK said:

If the government were being rational it would drop this and cover the cost from general taxation, raising income tax to cover once fuel duty dwindles out, so instead I expect an overly complicated system that costs billions to administer and is easy for the honest to avoid.

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/fuel-duties/
Fuel duty raises £25bn/year, 2% of all government revenue, £850/household on average.
...and falling.

So keep cranking up fuel duty whupilst it still exists and fund the rest from general taxation...

Mildly_Miffed said:

The only proper way to do any per-mile pricing is through a comprehensive ANPR network, and that simply doesn't exist, and won't do without a LOT of investment.
2,300 miles of motorway
5,300 miles of trunk A-road (nationally managed)
24,300 miles of non-trunk A-road (local authority managed)
19,000 miles of B-road
195,000 miles of C- and unclassified road.

ANPR is already fairly comprehensive on the major roads, so it's "just" a back-end project. Start to price just on those, though, and you move traffic off the primary network onto the secondary, which is the exact opposite of what you want to do for better traffic flow.

Full coverage of ANPR is just not logistically or financially possible, it would cost tens if not hundreds of billions to implement and tens of billions a year to operate, it would be a net cost not a revenue generation tool.

Mildly_Miffed said:

I expect the results of the consultation will result in some awkward conversations between No.11 and the Dept of Transport, and the current plan will not come to pass.

I agree, at most a MOT based system, but ideally just drop it entirely.

Mildly_Miffed

MattMattMattUK said:

Mildly_Miffed said:

MattMattMattUK said:

If the government were being rational it would drop this and cover the cost from general taxation, raising income tax to cover once fuel duty dwindles out, so instead I expect an overly complicated system that costs billions to administer and is easy for the honest to avoid.

https://obr.uk/forecasts-in-depth/tax-by-tax-spend-by-spend/fuel-duties/
Fuel duty raises £25bn/year, 2% of all government revenue, £850/household on average.
...and falling.

So keep cranking up fuel duty whupilst it still exists and fund the rest from general taxation...

And yet it's not been "cranked up".

It's been frozen at 57.95p/litre since 2009, with a 5p cut between 2022 and next September.
If it'd been increased with inflation alone, it'd now be 93.3p/litre.

MouldyOldDough

What do you think will happen to the consumer cost of petrol – from 2030 onwards ?

Will it increase due to taxation in a bid to get 100% of drivers on to EV’s or will it reduce (in real terms) - due to a glut pf unused fuel - or will it be totally unchanged ?