New cooker couldn't be connected - refund?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Woodstok2000 said: but there's no way that knowledge can be expected of the customer as part of a fair contract. The terms only state you need to have an appropriate connection within 1m

I think this is a fair comment, wiring regs change constantly and consumers can't be expected to be up-to-date with them.

If the installation fee was broken down as some sort of call out fee + install then perhaps they could keep the call out part but if the fee is for install, the info from Argos doesn't mention the circuit needs an RCD and no one checked as per screech_78's comment above I don't see how they can charge. 

Chargeback for service not received may be an option, I think Argos will have to show they've acted in accordance with their terms. 

Other options are email to Sainsburys CEO or letter before action, arguing the toss with customer services is likely to be frustrating and fruitless. 

No-one knows whether a call was received or what was said.

Hence the use of the word "if"? 

powerful_Rogue

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Woodstok2000 said: but there's no way that knowledge can be expected of the customer as part of a fair contract. The terms only state you need to have an appropriate connection within 1m

I think this is a fair comment, wiring regs change constantly and consumers can't be expected to be up-to-date with them.

If the installation fee was broken down as some sort of call out fee + install then perhaps they could keep the call out part but if the fee is for install, the info from Argos doesn't mention the circuit needs an RCD and no one checked as per screech_78's comment above I don't see how they can charge. 

Chargeback for service not received may be an option, I think Argos will have to show they've acted in accordance with their terms. 

Other options are email to Sainsburys CEO or letter before action, arguing the toss with customer services is likely to be frustrating and fruitless. 

No-one knows whether a call was received or what was said.

Hence the use of the word "if"? 

Your post was badly worded then if you a relying on 'if'. The if you refer to, seems to be on how the fee was broken down.

I think it's better to wait for clarification rather then jumping to LBA. It can erase any goodwill that may be forthcoming.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Woodstok2000 said: but there's no way that knowledge can be expected of the customer as part of a fair contract. The terms only state you need to have an appropriate connection within 1m

I think this is a fair comment, wiring regs change constantly and consumers can't be expected to be up-to-date with them.

If the installation fee was broken down as some sort of call out fee + install then perhaps they could keep the call out part but if the fee is for install, the info from Argos doesn't mention the circuit needs an RCD and no one checked as per screech_78's comment above I don't see how they can charge. 

Chargeback for service not received may be an option, I think Argos will have to show they've acted in accordance with their terms. 

Other options are email to Sainsburys CEO or letter before action, arguing the toss with customer services is likely to be frustrating and fruitless. 

No-one knows whether a call was received or what was said.

Hence the use of the word "if"? 

Your post was badly worded then if you a relying on 'if'. The if you refer to, seems to be on how the fee was broken down.

I think it's better to wait for clarification rather then jumping to LBA. It can erase any goodwill that may be forthcoming.

"but if the fee is for install, the info from Argos doesn't mention the circuit needs an RCD and no one checked as per screech_78's comment above I don't see how they can charge. "

There is a comma, there is the word "and", if applies to all 3 sections of the sentence. That's how I would read and write it?

Grumpy_chap

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

the info from Argos doesn't mention the circuit needs an RCD and no one checked as per screech_78's comment above I don't see how they can charge. 

I have to be honest, I found the comment from Screech confusing at best:

screech_78 said:

Regardless, I think a refund is due. I work for a different company and our installers aren’t electricians so if there’s any reason they can’t install (customer error or not) the fee is refunded. They would have checked prior to starting the install that everything was correct so they won’t have done any work. I can’t see how they can charge for a service you haven’t received. 

AIUI, only a qualified Part P registered Electrician is allowed to carry out electrical works in a domestic premises by way of trade.
Clearly, the work to install the over was by way of trade and, in my understanding, the hard wiring of a cooker to a socket / spur would come under the category of electrical works and therefore be requiring the qualified Electrician.

IF the cooker was one that simply used a three-pin plug and a local wall socket that would not be electrical work and would not require a qualified Electrician.  Same as installing a washing machine also just plugs in so no Electrician required.

It is unclear here as I would usually expect that a qualified Electrician would not have walked away and said "can't do it" once they determined there was no RCD at the distribution board but would have said "there is no RCD so I can't simply connect the cooker - I can install an RCD for an extra £xx".
If the cooker was of a type that required a qualified Electrician, then I can't imagine Argos not sending a qualified Electrician.
If the cooker was of the type that simply plugged in, I would be surprised that the individual doing the install would have been going back and looking at the distribution board.


This line of thought has, though, prompted another option that the OP may wish to consider and potentially make the full refund more viable.
IF the installation required a qualified Electrician and the installer that attended was not a qualified Electrician, then the OP has not received the service paid for and should receive a full refund (which would be a change from my comments upthread, subject to a qualified condition).

Emmia

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Woodstok2000 said: but there's no way that knowledge can be expected of the customer as part of a fair contract. The terms only state you need to have an appropriate connection within 1m

I think this is a fair comment, wiring regs change constantly and consumers can't be expected to be up-to-date with them.

If the installation fee was broken down as some sort of call out fee + install then perhaps they could keep the call out part but if the fee is for install, the info from Argos doesn't mention the circuit needs an RCD and no one checked as per screech_78's comment above I don't see how they can charge. 

Chargeback for service not received may be an option, I think Argos will have to show they've acted in accordance with their terms. 

Other options are email to Sainsburys CEO or letter before action, arguing the toss with customer services is likely to be frustrating and fruitless. 

No-one knows whether a call was received or what was said.

Hence the use of the word "if"? 

Your post was badly worded then if you a relying on 'if'. The if you refer to, seems to be on how the fee was broken down.

I think it's better to wait for clarification rather then jumping to LBA. It can erase any goodwill that may be forthcoming.

"but if the fee is for install, the info from Argos doesn't mention the circuit needs an RCD and no one checked as per screech_78's comment above I don't see how they can charge. "

There is a comma, there is the word "and", if applies to all 3 sections of the sentence. That's how I would read and write it?

It's also possible a call was received but the person who took it assumed (incorrectly) that the relevant requirements/circuits were already in place as the installation is essentially swapping one cooker for another.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Grumpy_chap said: "there is no RCD so I can't simply connect the cooker - I can install an RCD for an extra £xx".

We had an electrician on someone else's dime, I asked if they could swap a light switch face plate over whilst they had a spare 5 minutes (it has 400 wires and if I take it apart I'll never remember where they go back to and obviously I offered to pay for this), answer was no for liability reasons.

In short if the electrician is hired by a company they might not be allowed to undertake any extra work that is outside the remit of the job and I doubt Argos want to expand into replacing consumer units  

powerful_Rogue

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

Woodstok2000 said: but there's no way that knowledge can be expected of the customer as part of a fair contract. The terms only state you need to have an appropriate connection within 1m

I think this is a fair comment, wiring regs change constantly and consumers can't be expected to be up-to-date with them.

If the installation fee was broken down as some sort of call out fee + install then perhaps they could keep the call out part but if the fee is for install, the info from Argos doesn't mention the circuit needs an RCD and no one checked as per screech_78's comment above I don't see how they can charge. 

Chargeback for service not received may be an option, I think Argos will have to show they've acted in accordance with their terms. 

Other options are email to Sainsburys CEO or letter before action, arguing the toss with customer services is likely to be frustrating and fruitless. 

No-one knows whether a call was received or what was said.

Hence the use of the word "if"? 

Your post was badly worded then if you a relying on 'if'. The if you refer to, seems to be on how the fee was broken down.

I think it's better to wait for clarification rather then jumping to LBA. It can erase any goodwill that may be forthcoming.

"but if the fee is for install, the info from Argos doesn't mention the circuit needs an RCD and no one checked as per screech_78's comment above I don't see how they can charge. "

There is a comma, there is the word "and", if applies to all 3 sections of the sentence. That's how I would read and write it?

It can be read the other way as we know from the thread that Argos FAQ regarding installation does not mention anything about an RCD being required, so that's not an 'if'.

Anyway, we're going off kilter here.

Grumpy_chap

Emmia said:

It's also possible a call was received but the person who took it assumed (incorrectly) that the relevant requirements/circuits were already in place as the installation is essentially swapping one cooker for another.

The requirements on the Argos website for booking a new cooker installation seem to only say that there must be a suitable power point within 1 m plus access / clearance:
https://help.argos.co.uk/help/installation/what-do-i-need-to-do-in-advance-of-my-product-being-installed?

I think it is reasonable that the average person (man on the Clapham omnibus) would think that if they had a power point for a cooker working fine, then that power point would be suitable for a new cooker.
Argos do not say there must be an RCD or anything more.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

powerful_Rogue said:

It can be read the other way as we know from the thread that Argos FAQ regarding installation does not mention anything about an RCD being required, so that's not an 'if'.

Anyway, we're going off kilter here.

I would guess you'd know by now I wouldn't take anything written in a thread as correct without confirming it myself so perhaps you think I've checked the link, which I didn't bother to do, so I have no idea what the Argos FAQ says, again hence "if". 

But yes it is indeed, off kilter.... 

powerful_Rogue

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

powerful_Rogue said:

It can be read the other way as we know from the thread that Argos FAQ regarding installation does not mention anything about an RCD being required, so that's not an 'if'.

Anyway, we're going off kilter here.

I would guess you'd know by now I wouldn't take anything written in a thread as correct without confirming it myself so perhaps you think I've checked the link, which I didn't bother to do, so I have no idea what the Argos FAQ says, again hence "if". 

But yes it is indeed, off kilter.... 

I had already checked, but didn't see the need to write it as it had already been commented. Sadly a lot of people that come here don't bother to check.