Will the new EV per-mile tax change your purchasing plans?

matt_drummer

I think many people are making the mistake of thinking that ev's need to be cheaper than ice to work.

Their primary purpose is to reduce emissions where we live and improve the quality of the air we breath.

They may well end up being more expensive than ice overall, but that is the cost of stopping burning stuff.

That is what this is about

Cornucopia

I'm going to get an EV anyway

subjecttocontract said:

Yes I was seriously considering an EV, earlier in the year but decided against it for lots of reasons see below. To me the 3p per mile starter charge is just another negative contributing factor and it's a matter of how many negatives does one accept before they say enough, maybe the issues will be sorted by 2028 but I doubt it.

* Some of the media reports where people attempted a long journey and had problems charging their car along the way caught my attention. The chargers were either very expensive, or all in use, or were not working. Some of them required an app to be downloaded onto a phone. Different stops required different apps. All contributed towards putting me off my purchsse. One of my son's did a road trip with others to Germany and had some of these same issues.
* I usually only buy new cars so the heavy depreciation wouldn't be welcomed.
* I'm not sure if EVs are ok for towing.
* The charging infrastructure around the country doesnt seem to be quite where it needs to be just yet.
* Then I often wonder how the many millions of people who live in terraced houses or flats with no off street parking are going to manage to charge a car other than on public/commercial charge points.

- "Problems" seems a bit general.  Some people have problems fuelling their ICE vehicles (mainly putting in the wrong fuel).    Public charging has been transformed during my 4 years of EV running - especially across the motorway network.   If cost is a consideration, there are Apps providing prior info on charging availability and cost.   Whether those issues are even a serious consideration obvs depends on how you use your car.   On the main route from here in Kent to London (around 40 miles) there are now probably 150 charging connections adjacent to the motorway.   That's more than sufficient for the time being.

- I wouldn't "buy" a new EV at the moment.  Leasing/PCP is a better option with their built in protection against depreciation.

- Some EVs can tow, most small ones can't.

- The charging infrastructure is coming along.   It could of course be better, but it seems to be adequate where I live.   We're getting some new rapid chargers at Morrisons which will be useful.

- I think where we need to head to is that every destination has charging available.   That way people without home charging can always be charging.  There are also plans for pavement gullies and other terrace street solutions. 

Cornucopia

I'm going to get an EV anyway

matt_drummer said:

I think many people are making the mistake of thinking that ev's need to be cheaper than ice to work...

I think it was a necessary claim in the early days when EVs were expensive to buy and that had to be offset by zero road tax and cheap running costs.   That's not the case any more - there are EVs that are cheaper to buy new, as well as capable used EVs.

For the time being EVs are cheaper to run than equivalent ICE vehicles except for the very specific case of people without home/work charging who always use the most expensive rapid chargers and do not have any kind of discount or bundle available.  

Some EVs are available to buy at similar prices to equivalent ICE cars - you just need to choose one that is.

Richard436

I think the ev tax only applying to plug-in hybrids

matt_drummer

Cornucopia said:

matt_drummer said:

I think many people are making the mistake of thinking that ev's need to be cheaper than ice to work...

I think it was a necessary claim in the early days when EVs were expensive to buy and that had to be offset by zero road tax and cheap running costs.   That's not the case any more - there are EVs that are cheaper to buy new, as well as capable used EVs.

For the time being EVs are cheaper to run than equivalent ICE vehicles except for the very specific case of people without home/work charging who always use the most expensive rapid chargers and do not have any kind of discount or bundle available.  

Some EVs are available to buy at similar prices to equivalent ICE cars - you just need to choose one that is.

You have slightly missed my point.

I consider the cost of a vehicle to be all the costs of ownership and use, not just the buying price of the car.

The true cost of buying the car is the difference between what you paid for it and what you sold it for.

EV's seem to depreciate faster than ice according to comments here and elsewhere, that may be true and that may change in the future.

In any case, they will cost what they cost, lower financial costs isn't the reason for their existence although it will be good if they were cheaper to own in general.

It will take a while but I think people will come around to the idea of buying a secondhand battery.

As older evs become more prevalent trust levels will increase.

It's actually much harder to abuse an ev's battery than it is the engine in an ice car and it's much easier to check the state of health of the battery than it is an engine and associated parts.

MattMattMattUK

I'm going to get an EV anyway

matt_drummer said:

Cornucopia said:

matt_drummer said:

I think many people are making the mistake of thinking that ev's need to be cheaper than ice to work...

I think it was a necessary claim in the early days when EVs were expensive to buy and that had to be offset by zero road tax and cheap running costs.   That's not the case any more - there are EVs that are cheaper to buy new, as well as capable used EVs.

For the time being EVs are cheaper to run than equivalent ICE vehicles except for the very specific case of people without home/work charging who always use the most expensive rapid chargers and do not have any kind of discount or bundle available.  

Some EVs are available to buy at similar prices to equivalent ICE cars - you just need to choose one that is.

You have slightly missed my point.

I consider the cost of a vehicle to be all the costs of ownership and use, not just the buying price of the car.

Exactly this, I have never understood why so many people struggle with the concept to TCO.

Cornucopia

I'm going to get an EV anyway

matt_drummer said:

Cornucopia said:

matt_drummer said:

I think many people are making the mistake of thinking that ev's need to be cheaper than ice to work...

I think it was a necessary claim in the early days when EVs were expensive to buy and that had to be offset by zero road tax and cheap running costs.   That's not the case any more - there are EVs that are cheaper to buy new, as well as capable used EVs.

For the time being EVs are cheaper to run than equivalent ICE vehicles except for the very specific case of people without home/work charging who always use the most expensive rapid chargers and do not have any kind of discount or bundle available.  

Some EVs are available to buy at similar prices to equivalent ICE cars - you just need to choose one that is.

You have slightly missed my point.

I consider the cost of a vehicle to be all the costs of ownership and use, not just the buying price of the car.

The true cost of buying the car is the difference between what you paid for it and what you sold it for.

It's certainly a cost to someone, but not necessarily to the owner.    That was my point, and it's a good point in the context of a place that concerns itself with value for money.   And I suppose secondarily that the EV situation has now developed to the extent that there aren't that many universal truisms any more, and most of the things that seem to concern people are now much more a case of "it depends".

matt_drummer said:

Cornucopia said:

matt_drummer said:

I think many people are making the mistake of thinking that ev's need to be cheaper than ice to work...

I think it was a necessary claim in the early days when EVs were expensive to buy and that had to be offset by zero road tax and cheap running costs.   That's not the case any more - there are EVs that are cheaper to buy new, as well as capable used EVs.

For the time being EVs are cheaper to run than equivalent ICE vehicles except for the very specific case of people without home/work charging who always use the most expensive rapid chargers and do not have any kind of discount or bundle available.  

Some EVs are available to buy at similar prices to equivalent ICE cars - you just need to choose one that is.

EV's seem to depreciate faster than ice according to comments here and elsewhere, that may be true and that may change in the future.

In any case, they will cost what they cost, lower financial costs isn't the reason for their existence although it will be good if they were cheaper to own in general.

It will take a while but I think people will come around to the idea of buying a secondhand battery.

As older evs become more prevalent trust levels will increase.

It's actually much harder to abuse an ev's battery than it is the engine in an ice car and it's much easier to check the state of health of the battery than it is an engine and associated parts.

So many value for money questions come back to two things:  information and caveat emptor.   With those two things in mind, it's certainly possible to own and run an EV for less than an equivalent ICE car as things presently stand.

I know because I'm doing it.

MeteredOut

subjecttocontract said:

Yes I was seriously considering an EV, earlier in the year but decided against it for lots of reasons see below. To me the 3p per mile starter charge is just another negative contributing factor and it's a matter of how many negatives does one accept before they say enough, maybe the issues will be sorted by 2028 but I doubt it.

* Some of the media reports where people attempted a long journey and had problems charging their car along the way caught my attention. The chargers were either very expensive, or all in use, or were not working. Some of them required an app to be downloaded onto a phone. Different stops required different apps. All contributed towards putting me off my purchsse. One of my son's did a road trip with others to Germany and had some of these same issues.
* I usually only buy new cars so the heavy depreciation wouldn't be welcomed.
* I'm not sure if EVs are ok for towing.
* The charging infrastructure around the country doesnt seem to be quite where it needs to be just yet.
* Then I often wonder how the many millions of people who live in terraced houses or flats with no off street parking are going to manage to charge a car other than on public/commercial charge points.

The poll was whether the 3ppm had changed your mind. It sounds like you'd already decided not to get an EV even before the proposed 3ppm, for valid reasons, though I'm not sure why other peoples ability to charge at home would impact your own decision.

EVs definitely are not for everyone (I'd 100% not get one if i could not charge at home) but I'd put the 3ppm well down the list as a reason not to.

born_again

I'm going to get an EV anyway

matt_drummer said:

Cornucopia said:

matt_drummer said:

I think many people are making the mistake of thinking that ev's need to be cheaper than ice to work...

I think it was a necessary claim in the early days when EVs were expensive to buy and that had to be offset by zero road tax and cheap running costs.   That's not the case any more - there are EVs that are cheaper to buy new, as well as capable used EVs.

For the time being EVs are cheaper to run than equivalent ICE vehicles except for the very specific case of people without home/work charging who always use the most expensive rapid chargers and do not have any kind of discount or bundle available.  

Some EVs are available to buy at similar prices to equivalent ICE cars - you just need to choose one that is.

You have slightly missed my point.

I consider the cost of a vehicle to be all the costs of ownership and use, not just the buying price of the car.

The true cost of buying the car is the difference between what you paid for it and what you sold it for.

EV's seem to depreciate faster than ice according to comments here and elsewhere, that may be true and that may change in the future.

In any case, they will cost what they cost, lower financial costs isn't the reason for their existence although it will be good if they were cheaper to own in general.

It will take a while but I think people will come around to the idea of buying a secondhand battery.

As older evs become more prevalent trust levels will increase.

It's actually much harder to abuse an ev's battery than it is the engine in an ice car and it's much easier to check the state of health of the battery than it is an engine and associated parts.

Have you factored in servicing?
While Tesla is not the norm with no servicing. Most EV's are every 2 years & far cheaper than ICE per service.

Depreciation will slow down as we get nearer to 2030 & people are having to look at EV's. Most will head to the 2nd hand market, which increases demand & raises prices.

If you look at auction prices on Tesla, they are going for more than CAP price that auctions use as a valuation guide.

matt_drummer

born_again said:

matt_drummer said:

Cornucopia said:

matt_drummer said:

I think many people are making the mistake of thinking that ev's need to be cheaper than ice to work...

I think it was a necessary claim in the early days when EVs were expensive to buy and that had to be offset by zero road tax and cheap running costs.   That's not the case any more - there are EVs that are cheaper to buy new, as well as capable used EVs.

For the time being EVs are cheaper to run than equivalent ICE vehicles except for the very specific case of people without home/work charging who always use the most expensive rapid chargers and do not have any kind of discount or bundle available.  

Some EVs are available to buy at similar prices to equivalent ICE cars - you just need to choose one that is.

You have slightly missed my point.

I consider the cost of a vehicle to be all the costs of ownership and use, not just the buying price of the car.

The true cost of buying the car is the difference between what you paid for it and what you sold it for.

EV's seem to depreciate faster than ice according to comments here and elsewhere, that may be true and that may change in the future.

In any case, they will cost what they cost, lower financial costs isn't the reason for their existence although it will be good if they were cheaper to own in general.

It will take a while but I think people will come around to the idea of buying a secondhand battery.

As older evs become more prevalent trust levels will increase.

It's actually much harder to abuse an ev's battery than it is the engine in an ice car and it's much easier to check the state of health of the battery than it is an engine and associated parts.

Have you factored in servicing?
While Tesla is not the norm with no servicing. Most EV's are every 2 years & far cheaper than ICE per service.

Depreciation will slow down as we get nearer to 2030 & people are having to look at EV's. Most will head to the 2nd hand market, which increases demand & raises prices.

If you look at auction prices on Tesla, they are going for more than CAP price that auctions use as a valuation guide.

Yes. it's a cost of ownership.

I am on my second Tesla.

They do need repairs eventually but not mine as I have never had one long enough.