Parcel gone missing from doorstep

photome

I think you need to forget the signature bit and if the retailer won’t play ball try your credit card company

born_again

RomfordNavy said:

At the moment I am having trouble getting the seller to send me an invoice for the goods, which I have asked for in the hope that I may then be able to make a claim against Royal Mail for not asking for a signature.

You have no contract with RM, that is the sellers problem to sort out. 

m0bov

RomfordNavy said:

At the moment I am having trouble getting the seller to send me an invoice for the goods, which I have asked for in the hope that I may then be able to make a claim against Royal Mail for not asking for a signature.

Your not the customer of royal mail. Your claim is against the seller as your their customer.

RomfordNavy

Supplier claims that it is down to Royal Mail not them:

Cause suppliers carrier ( Ukrposhta) is responsible till the moment parcel crosses the board{er} of UK.  After that - it's a royal mail. And it's not my carrier.

Aylesbury_Duck

RomfordNavy said:

Supplier claims that it is down to Royal Mail not them:

Cause suppliers carrier ( Ukrposhta) is responsible till the moment parcel crosses the board{er} of UK.  After that - it's a royal mail. And it's not my carrier.

Well whose carrier is it, then?  You didn’t set up the contract with Royal Mail, the retailer did.

Put simply, if they were a UK retailer they'd be wrong.  I have no idea how Ukrainian consumer laws work, so the retailer may be correct in what they say.   None of that helps you.  You have no means of enforcing your UK consumer rights against the retailer, and you have no contract with Royal Mail so they owe you nothing.

Okell

RomfordNavy said:

Supplier claims that it is down to Royal Mail not them:

Cause suppliers carrier ( Ukrposhta) is responsible till the moment parcel crosses the board{er} of UK.  After that - it's a royal mail. And it's not my carrier.

You're wasting your time trying to pursue either the seller or Royal Mail.

As the seller is in the Ukraine it's highly unlikely that the Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies, and even if it did I don't see how you could enforce its provisions.  Therefore it's pointless trying to get satisfaction out of the seller.

Similarly you have no legal relationship with RM so you have no "consumer" or contractual remedy agianst them.

I think you said previously that you paid by credit card.  If that is that case then for a purchase of £350 you should contact your credit card provider and tell them that you want to make a s75 claim against them.  I would advise that you emphasise to them that it's a s75 claim and not a chargeback.


[Edit:  Sorry but I have to ask - what on earth have you bought that you could only get from the Ukraine, and why?  Buying anything from outside the EU - or even the UK - means that you have virtually zero consumer protection if anything goes wrong]

A_Geordie

Okell said:

You're wasting your time trying to pursue either the seller or Royal Mail.

Similarly you have no legal relationship with RM so you have no "consumer" or contractual remedy agianst them.

I agree the OP would waste their time pursuing the seller but not necessarily RM. A lot of focus on these forums are whether the consumer has a contractual claim and you are right, there is no contractual claim against RM but there can be a claim in tort which doesn't require a contractual relationship between the parties. The Torts (Interference with Goods) Act 1977 under the header of negligence by RM causing the loss of the parcel could be a valid claim the OP could pursue against RM, up to the value of the goods.

Okell said:

As the seller is in the Ukraine it's highly unlikely that the Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies, and even if it did I don't see how you could enforce its provisions.  Therefore it's pointless trying to get satisfaction out of the seller.

If there was evidence that the seller was directing their activities towards the UK would mean that the CRA is in scope, irrespective of the seller's location. The fact that the seller accepted the OP's order could be evidence that the seller offers their goods to those based in the UK. I agree, it's pointless pursuing action against the seller, but for s75 claims, it is more important because it means the difference between whether the credit card provider is subject to the CRA or whether the laws of Ukraine applies to the transaction since the card provider is subject to the same governing laws and terms and conditions as the OP/seller agreed to.

Okell said:

[Edit:  Sorry but I have to ask - what on earth have you bought that you could only get from the Ukraine, and why?  Buying anything from outside the EU - or even the UK - means that you have virtually zero consumer protection if anything goes wrong]

I wouldn't say there are virtually zero consumer protections for overseas purchases, but consumers have to be smart about it. We have chargeback and s75 rules that are still applicable to overseas purchases.

There is also PayPal buyer protection if the item is not received or not as described then you have the opportunity for PayPal to reimburse you. Of course PayPal may not always do that when it is particularly obvious or there is compelling evidence that favours the consumer's version of events but in that case the consumer could then sue PayPal for breach of contract under the buyer protection scheme for failing to apply the rules properly/reasonably. Much easier to sue PayPal and the chances of successful recovery of money are greater than an overseas company since you would be suing PayPal's UK company. 

RomfordNavy

Okell said:

[Edit:  Sorry but I have to ask - what on earth have you bought that you could only get from the Ukraine, and why?  Buying anything from outside the EU - or even the UK - means that you have virtually zero consumer protection if anything goes wrong]

Pair of headphones.

RomfordNavy

Okell said:

I would advise that you emphasise to them that it's a s75 claim and not a chargeback.

Have already made a claim with credit card provider but don't know whether they are treating that as a Section 75 or a Chargeback.  Should I phone them to check?

A_Geordie

RomfordNavy said:

Okell said:

I would advise that you emphasise to them that it's a s75 claim and not a chargeback.

Have already made a claim with credit card provider but don't know whether they are treating that as a Section 75 or a Chargeback.  Should I phone them to check?

Sure you must know what sort of claim you made with the card provider? Chargeback and s75 are two entirely different processes together with different rights and consequences.

If you are seeking to claim under s75 then the card provider should not be processing the claim as a chargeback without your authority. However, a lot of credit card providers seem to try that route first because it means they are not personally liable. In my opinion that is not only a breach of contract, it's most definitely a breach of data protection laws and there's a good chance it's a breach of the Financial Conduct Authority regulations which the bank is subject to. Applying a chargeback could always leave you open to a claim being made against you directly as a result of the banks actions. Not necessarily in this case because the seller is based in Ukraine but if they have operations in the UK or the means to pursue you, then they could. 

If you're unsure about the type of claim you made then you may want to call them back and confirm. Do not be bullied into submission if they tell you that they will process it as a chargeback if that's not you want to do and start a formal complaint if you need to.