Cancelled mobile phone refund

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

https://www.motorola.com/gb/en/legal/terms-of-sale

Terms are a mess but

We indicate acceptance of an order by shipping the Device to the customer.

As cancelled before dispatch they need to refund within 14 days of withdrawing the offer. Letter before action and small claims is the answer if you can't get any joy out of communication with customer services.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34

(6) Otherwise, the time is the end of 14 days after the day on which the trader is informed of the consumer's decision to withdraw the offer or cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 32.

SiliconChip said:

It goes on to say that reimbursement may be withheld until goods are received back or I have supplied evidence of sending goods back, which I would argue is what the UPS tracking status shows.

That doesn't apply to you, only applies when cancelling the contract, you withdrew your offer so there was no contract to cancel. 

Not related to OP but in a situation where a contract had been formed

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52021XC1229(04)&qid=1640961745514

5.5.5.   Risk when returning the goods to the trader

Where the consumer has never taken physical possession of the goods, e.g. by refusing to take delivery, either without any explicit statement or with a statement to the trader about withdrawal from the contract, the trader would continue bearing the risk of loss or damage since no transfer of risk to the consumer will have taken place according to Article 20.

outtatune

SiliconChip said:

born_again said:

SiliconChip said:

born_again said:

TadleyBaggie said:

born_again said:

So did you refuse delivery?

Fourth bullet point suggests they did.

I know, just asking to confirm.👍

As would have been better to take phone & contact them for returns address.

Simply refusing delivery, can lead to a world of pain as there is no real tracking process. Item could get stuck in van or depot it's taken back to, waiting for someone to sort out.
Never mind that a returns address can be different to a fulfillment canter they are sent from.

Yes, I did refuse, which is what Motorola told me to do, as I've stated in the 3rd bullet point.

So it could be stuck in customs?

You seem to be keen on raising irrelevant points but not so keen to answer what I've asked. If you don't know the answer then it's probably best not to post at all as you're wasting everybody's time. 

How to get people to help you out on the internet, in 2 easy steps:

1. Don't do this
2. Do something else

Easy peasy!

SiliconChip

born_again said:

Must use Vision Express then 🤣

My bad, don't re read whole thread each time.

As I said, the link was there from the start because I expected that anyone who was able to offer an informed response (and I include you in the list of posters that I thought would be able to do that) would want to read the T&Cs for themselves.

SiliconChip

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

https://www.motorola.com/gb/en/legal/terms-of-sale

Terms are a mess but

We indicate acceptance of an order by shipping the Device to the customer.

As cancelled before dispatch they need to refund within 14 days of withdrawing the offer. Letter before action and small claims is the answer if you can't get any joy out of communication with customer services.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2013/3134/regulation/34

(6) Otherwise, the time is the end of 14 days after the day on which the trader is informed of the consumer's decision to withdraw the offer or cancel the contract, in accordance with regulation 32.

SiliconChip said:

It goes on to say that reimbursement may be withheld until goods are received back or I have supplied evidence of sending goods back, which I would argue is what the UPS tracking status shows.

That doesn't apply to you, only applies when cancelling the contract, you withdrew your offer so there was no contract to cancel. 

Not related to OP but in a situation where a contract had been formed

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:52021XC1229(04)&qid=1640961745514

5.5.5.   Risk when returning the goods to the trader

Where the consumer has never taken physical possession of the goods, e.g. by refusing to take delivery, either without any explicit statement or with a statement to the trader about withdrawal from the contract, the trader would continue bearing the risk of loss or damage since no transfer of risk to the consumer will have taken place according to Article 20.

Thank you, that's extremely helpful. Obviously I'm not going to jump straight into LBA/MCOL without giving Motorola a chance to respond to an informal request to make the refund but it's great to have the relevant legislation on which to base a formal request should that be needed. It's also helpful to know that the return of goods is not a factor in this instance.

SiliconChip

I sent Motorola a message through their website on Monday to request the refund as the 14 days had passed, they say they'll respond within 24 hours but as with previous attempts there has been no answer. Would I be right to assume that I could ask Lloyds for a Chargeback based on non-receipt of refund, which I believe for Visa is a V85 reason code? 

Although @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head has confirmed that return of the order doesn't apply UPS now show a return tracking number which places the package at Stanford-le-Hope, which I believe is their depot for import/export.

born_again

SiliconChip said:

I sent Motorola a message through their website on Monday to request the refund as the 14 days had passed, they say they'll respond within 24 hours but as with previous attempts there has been no answer. Would I be right to assume that I could ask Lloyds for a Chargeback based on non-receipt of refund, which I believe for Visa is a V85 reason code? 

Although @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head has confirmed that return of the order doesn't apply UPS now show a return tracking number which places the package at Stanford-le-Hope, which I believe is their depot for import/export.

Non receipt of refund requires something stating that they have refunded (Date) Amount of refund & last 4 of card no.
You then have to wait 15 days from date of stated refund before you can start the chargeback.

All I will say is good luck getting the required information 😶‍🌫️

SiliconChip

born_again said:

SiliconChip said:

I sent Motorola a message through their website on Monday to request the refund as the 14 days had passed, they say they'll respond within 24 hours but as with previous attempts there has been no answer. Would I be right to assume that I could ask Lloyds for a Chargeback based on non-receipt of refund, which I believe for Visa is a V85 reason code? 

Although @the_lunatic_is_in_my_head has confirmed that return of the order doesn't apply UPS now show a return tracking number which places the package at Stanford-le-Hope, which I believe is their depot for import/export.

Non receipt of refund requires something stating that they have refunded (Date) Amount of refund & last 4 of card no.
You then have to wait 15 days from date of stated refund before you can start the chargeback.

All I will say is good luck getting the required information 😶‍🌫️

Ah, right, well I don't have that so I guess I'll need to either wait for them to make the refund in their own time or start on the legal route. I've been in a chat session with Motorola this morning and they are insisting on getting the order returned before refunding. At least I can now track where it is so I'll give it a few days to cross the channel before doing anything else.

SiliconChip

It's now getting on for 6 weeks since I placed and cancelled the order, and 2 weeks since it was received back by Motorola in the Netherlands on 1/12, with no sign yet of a refund. I did get an email on 5/12 from customer services that said "Fresh update from our Sales team says that your refund is in work and all necessary data have been processed", but that's the last I've heard from them.

I sent a LBA on 10/12 to their UK office (actually Lenovo, who are the parent of Motorola) as provided in their Terms of Sale giving them until 20/12 to make the refund so there are still a few days to go before that deadline, and I hope they pay up before then.

If they don't then I'm prepared to spend the £70 to raise a MCOL claim, but I wonder whether there are grounds to request Lloyds to consider a refund, either by a Chargeback for a different reason to the one discussed previously or by a S75 claim? If anyone has any suggestions I'll be happy to hear them.

marcia_

 I wouldn't waste £70. Go to your bank with the evidence of them accepting the return and get a chargeback 

powerful_Rogue

SiliconChip said:

It's now getting on for 6 weeks since I placed and cancelled the order, and 2 weeks since it was received back by Motorola in the Netherlands on 1/12, with no sign yet of a refund. I did get an email on 5/12 from customer services that said "Fresh update from our Sales team says that your refund is in work and all necessary data have been processed", but that's the last I've heard from them.

I sent a LBA on 10/12 to their UK office (actually Lenovo, who are the parent of Motorola) as provided in their Terms of Sale giving them until 20/12 to make the refund so there are still a few days to go before that deadline, and I hope they pay up before then.

If they don't then I'm prepared to spend the £70 to raise a MCOL claim, but I wonder whether there are grounds to request Lloyds to consider a refund, either by a Chargeback for a different reason to the one discussed previously or by a S75 claim? If anyone has any suggestions I'll be happy to hear them.

You haven't really given them long in your LBA. Taking into account the postal service at this time of year.