Argos refusing to accept return

sheramber

Brie said:

I'd go back to the ad for this on the Argos website.   Does it say anything about "smooth ironing" "non stick" etc?  If so then I'd claim false advertising as the OP says "I used it once and didn't get on with it (sticking to clothes rucking them up, ...)"

I wouldn't expect a iron to stick to clothes assuming the temperature settings are correct/accurate and I don't know how an iron would "ruck up" clothing unless there was some abrasion on the plate.

If the iron is too hot for a light weight fabric it will stick and in the process will it ruck up as the operator continues to move the iron. 

Been there and done it. 

I was taught to test the iron on an unseen part to ensure it was a suitable temperature to proceed.

The fact that there are only three temperature settings would have been visible before using.  

screech_78

We’ve asked our legal team before (not Argos) and their view was that any purchases made as click & collect would be classed as a distance sale. 

sheramber

I don’t know if it is still the same but when buying in the shop you used to search the catalogue for the item reference and put the order through on the monitor. 

You then collect your order at the counter. 

Similar to ordering on line and collecting at the counter. 

born_again

sheramber said:

I don’t know if it is still the same but when buying in the shop you used to search the catalogue for the item reference and put the order through on the monitor. 

You then collect your order at the counter. 

Similar to ordering on line and collecting at the counter. 

Don't you pay online with click & collect?

saajan_12

prowla said:

Undervalued said:

Are you saying that the item is actually faulty?

Unlike a distance sale a shop does not have to allow change of mind returns (unless their terms and conditions choose to offer that).

Presumably, had you chosen to do so, you could have inspected the item in the branch, just as you could have in any other physical shop? If so then I don't think this counts as a distance sale so it all depends on Argos published policy on returns unless actually faulty.

Even if you had bought the iron at distance (mail order) filling it with water and ironing clothes would go well beyond reasonably inspecting the goods. So, although you would have had a right to return it the retailer could make a reduction in refund to reflect its reduced value.

Visually inspecting it wouldn't have given any information regarding how it performed in use.

You're conflating two different ideas
* Visual inspection is all you should do ahead of cancelling the contract (assuming this is a distance sale, then if you do more than what you'd usually inspect in a store, then the company can reduce your refund)
* Checking performance in use is to spot faults, and if so you can reject / get a repair / replacement if its actually faulty. 

What you can't do is check performance in use, decide you no longer want it despite no actual faults and expect a 100% refund. That's akin to a free trial which they are not offering and you don't have a right to. 

Jenni_D

born_again said:

sheramber said:

I don’t know if it is still the same but when buying in the shop you used to search the catalogue for the item reference and put the order through on the monitor. 

You then collect your order at the counter. 

Similar to ordering on line and collecting at the counter. 

Don't you pay online with click & collect?

Correct ... so not the same at all as buying instore.  

born_again

Jenni_D said:

born_again said:

sheramber said:

I don’t know if it is still the same but when buying in the shop you used to search the catalogue for the item reference and put the order through on the monitor. 

You then collect your order at the counter. 

Similar to ordering on line and collecting at the counter. 

Don't you pay online with click & collect?

Correct ... so not the same at all as buying instore.  

But at what point is the contract completed? On payment or when picking up instore?

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

saajan_12 said:

prowla said:

Undervalued said:

Are you saying that the item is actually faulty?

Unlike a distance sale a shop does not have to allow change of mind returns (unless their terms and conditions choose to offer that).

Presumably, had you chosen to do so, you could have inspected the item in the branch, just as you could have in any other physical shop? If so then I don't think this counts as a distance sale so it all depends on Argos published policy on returns unless actually faulty.

Even if you had bought the iron at distance (mail order) filling it with water and ironing clothes would go well beyond reasonably inspecting the goods. So, although you would have had a right to return it the retailer could make a reduction in refund to reflect its reduced value.

Visually inspecting it wouldn't have given any information regarding how it performed in use.

You're conflating two different ideas
* Visual inspection is all you should do ahead of cancelling the contract (assuming this is a distance sale, then if you do more than what you'd usually inspect in a store, then the company can reduce your refund)
* Checking performance in use is to spot faults, and if so you can reject / get a repair / replacement if its actually faulty. 

What you can't do is check performance in use, decide you no longer want it despite no actual faults and expect a 100% refund. That's akin to a free trial which they are not offering and you don't have a right to. 

This isn't really correct in a general sense, if you buy a TV you can plug it in and watch it as shops selling TVs usually have display models. A mere visual inspection may not be sufficient to establish the nature, characteristics and the functioning of the goods and performance in use may be required to achieve such. 

In terms of an iron, unless you put water in it, no one is going to know you used it any way, the deduction is for diminished value, if it isn't apparent if the goods were used or not there isn't any diminished value.

The guidance linked to previously discusses this also and notes:

The comparison with what the consumer can normally do in a brick- and-mortar shop serves as a good point of reference, for example:
Before purchasing audio/video and recording equipment, the consumer would normally be able to test the image or sound quality;
Trying on a garment in a shop would not involve the removal of the manufacturer’s tags;
The consumer would not normally be able to practically test household appliances, such as kitchen appliances, the actual use of which unavoidably leaves traces;
The consumer would not be able configure software on a computer; hence reasonable costs for any resetting of such equipment would also constitute diminished value.
The consumer could test perfumes and similar cosmetic products, which can be normally tested in shops, by means of a free tester that the trader could include with the product. That way, the consumers would not need to open the packaging of the product in order to exercise their right to establish their nature and characteristics (certain cosmetic products may be sealed for health protection or hygiene reasons – see section 5.11.4). 

Most important part in terms of Argos is, they don't seem to tell you much (possibly anything) about your right to cancel the contract and so, based on that aspect, can't impose a reduction. 

However the focus with OP's issue is the point at which the contract is concluded, the T&Cs say:

For Click and Collect and Tu clothing orders, completion of the contract between you and us will take place when the products ordered have been collected from the store.

A contract requires (among other things) offer, consideration and acceptance. The price on the website is an invitation to treat, the customer makes an offer by submitting an order, the consideration is the money paid, the acceptance should be an action by the other party (Argos in this case) so the customer collecting the goods isn't acceptance (as, to my knowledge, the same party can't perform both offer and acceptance). 

That said I don't see why acceptance can't occur in store by the action of Argos handing over the goods for example. 

I'm sure lawyers have been paid vast fortunes to debate the concept of acceptance, I have limited knowledge in this area and haven't seen a concrete answer to the question. 

Not worth OP going to court for £16, would Argos if it were £1600, who knows? 

Okell

Alderbank said:

Okell said:

KevinRW said:

But my understanding was that for online purchases you had 14 days to change your mind for any reason.

No I don't think the item is technically faulty, just doesn't work in a way I am happy with.

You are allowed to "handle" the iron sufficiently to establish the nature, characteristics and functioning of it, but you are not generally allowed to handle it more than you would be allowed to in a shop

With respect, I think that is confusing and not what the regs say...

You're right.  It was confusing and misleading!

Alderbank

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

saajan_12 said:

prowla said:

Undervalued said:

Are you saying that the item is actually faulty?

Unlike a distance sale a shop does not have to allow change of mind returns (unless their terms and conditions choose to offer that).

Presumably, had you chosen to do so, you could have inspected the item in the branch, just as you could have in any other physical shop? If so then I don't think this counts as a distance sale so it all depends on Argos published policy on returns unless actually faulty.

Even if you had bought the iron at distance (mail order) filling it with water and ironing clothes would go well beyond reasonably inspecting the goods. So, although you would have had a right to return it the retailer could make a reduction in refund to reflect its reduced value.

Visually inspecting it wouldn't have given any information regarding how it performed in use.

You're conflating two different ideas
* Visual inspection is all you should do ahead of cancelling the contract (assuming this is a distance sale, then if you do more than what you'd usually inspect in a store, then the company can reduce your refund)
* Checking performance in use is to spot faults, and if so you can reject / get a repair / replacement if its actually faulty. 

What you can't do is check performance in use, decide you no longer want it despite no actual faults and expect a 100% refund. That's akin to a free trial which they are not offering and you don't have a right to. 

A contract requires (among other things) offer, consideration and acceptance. The price on the website is an invitation to treat, the customer makes an offer by submitting an order, the consideration is the money paid, the acceptance should be an action by the other party (Argos in this case) so the customer collecting the goods isn't acceptance (as, to my knowledge, the same party can't perform both offer and acceptance). 

That said I don't see why acceptance can't occur in store by the action of Argos handing over the goods for example. 

I'm sure lawyers have been paid vast fortunes to debate the concept of acceptance, I have limited knowledge in this area and haven't seen a concrete answer to the question. 

Not worth OP going to court for £16, would Argos if it were £1600, who knows? 

A very interesting post.

This Law Commission report, commissioned by the Government and issued in 2021 by lawyers who were indeed paid vast fortunes to produce its hundred plus pages and thousands of learned words, is of relevance and interest to your post.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/61b9feade90e070449d49fd1/Transfer-of-ownership-report-and-bill.pdf

The report debates whether the current law wherein the two parties are free to agree the exact point of acceptance as a contract term is in the best interest of consumers, particularly for internet sales, and whether the Consumer Rights Act should be changed to define the point of acceptance.