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Scot_39

jodie264 said:

They charged me a SNUG rate while I was on Snug - 9p night rate v around 15p E7. 
.....
They reversed all the SNUG charges (around £707) 
.....

When I asked why, I was told my meter was incompatible with SNUG.  
.....  
These have been replaced with an estimated charge of £1956 for the period 11th Dec 24 to 11th Sept 25.
 

I suppose it's possible - if they have reverted all the Snug bills back to Dec - that perhaps an admission they via Snugs dynamic alcs timing method was never really working / your meter not dynamically controlled to switch your heating.

The use of the word estimated also worrying - are you saying your meter wasn't reliably being read for actual use - so bills not based on smart meter readings - but estimated ones - or do up you mean recalculated.  If it wax losing connection for readings it certainly likely not to have worked on snug.

That not only the afternoon boost - iirc you said in an earlier post you thought you never saw that working - but the core 6 hours wasn't working either. 

I wonder if you can see daily 1/2 hourly use on their portal that far back  - or via an app like bright - to go back and have a look at what was going on tariff / ALCS if can see via kWh use wise (heaters etc often wont run for the whole say snug 6 core or e7 7 hr off peak window - so it's not always easy) - but you might see something at either end - as your smart meter will still have the data (13months worth).

I do wonder how often it was working - if at all - and how often it wasnt.

You could perhaps as suggested above  - being misled say by the system working default say E7 as far as HW and heating operating - the snug core 0030 0630 isnt that different from many default e7 0000 to 0700 or 0030 to 0730 etc nominal timings and trusted as the bills said 9p charged for most of that off peak heating - possibly all of it - it was all working.

But their is no excuse for them not spotting that and so sorting out the billing far earlier if was as the CS OP said - meter is incompatible.  (I don't suppose that you got that in writing ?)

That might have realistically meant the more expensive rates applying anyway - but then if they told you say in January your rates were higher - you would have known - and had chance to react.  Even if only to moderate use.  But you might have had alternatives.  Supplier - some suppliers offer much cheaper e7 rates for some regions at least to suit high off peak users for instance.  Others even tou possibly - but maybe not - as may require some wiring changes to install self timing.

I am not sure if it might get you anywhere - but if your looking for a possible challange.

I would be intrigued to know if other forumites might think it worth say pursuing an argument something along the lines of turning around 2.14.7 and 2.14.9 in your Snug contract back on them...

The contract T&Cs are for them to revert after 30 days failure to control - but not arguably perhaps a shorter /  brief failure.

Like any contract between two parties - it should work both ways.

If they thought it was working well enough not to revert the tariff on your bills and put you on another tariff - for 3-4 months - and so if they left you on Snug for longer - shouldn't they then honour the tariff rates inc 9p snug off peak rates. 

As they are the ones responsible for monitoring that 30day condition - not the customer - it's their failure.
As per their T&Cs - they should have acted earlier - or at least arguably they should have acted earlier.

You might still lose the last 30 days - but maybe not the full period - Dec - Apr etc. 

Id certainly maybe asking them for an exact list of dates over the 4 months
- when they think snug smart scheduling  worked - if Snug control ever worked
- when they spotted it didn't
- when and what they tried to restart it (they have with others and its worked for a bit)
- and of course the dates they think it didn't respond at all so you meter reverted to e7 presets overnight.

It might make depressing reading - but it might prove they weren't monitoring for 30d failure correctly. 

If I thought my off peak was being billed at 9p - (its been double that on e10) - id be tempted to be less tight with temperatures and so use more energy for instance.  By not informing you for 4 months maybe you had too.

Phones4Chris

Scot_39 said:

jodie264 said:

They charged me a SNUG rate while I was on Snug - 9p night rate v around 15p E7. 
.....
They reversed all the SNUG charges (around £707) 
.....

When I asked why, I was told my meter was incompatible with SNUG.  
.....  
These have been replaced with an estimated charge of £1956 for the period 11th Dec 24 to 11th Sept 25.
 

The use of the word estimated also worrying - are you saying your meter wasn't reliably being read for actual use - so bills not based on smart meter readings - but estimated ones - or do up you mean recalculated.  If it wax losing connection for readings it certainly likely not to have worked on snug.

That not only the afternoon boost - iirc you said in an earlier post you thought you never saw that working - but the core 6 hours wasn't working either. 

I wonder if you can see daily 1/2 hourly use on their portal that far back  - or via an app like bright - to go back and have a look at what was going on tariff / ALCS if can see via kWh use wise (heaters etc often wont run for the whole say snug 6 core or e7 7 hr off peak window - so it's not always easy) - but you might see something at either end - as your smart meter will still have the data (13months worth).

IIRC without looking back @jodie264 did say she was getting 33 page bills with all the 1/2hr usage whilst on Snug.
She isn't the only Snug user that's having problems with the lack of afternoon boost either.
So I tend to think that all you rather wild speculation is a bit of hot air!

jodie264

scot_39  Ive copied, pasted and replied to your points in the body of your text.  

I suppose it's possible - if they have reverted all the Snug bills back to Dec - that perhaps an admission they via Snugs dynamic alcs timing method was never really working / your meter not dynamically controlled to switch your heating. IT MUST HAVE BEEN OR I WOULD HAVE HAD NO HEAT OR HOT WATER

The use of the word estimated also worrying - are you saying your meter wasn't reliably being read for actual use - so bills not based on smart meter readings - but estimated ones - or do up you mean recalculated.  If it wax losing connection for readings it certainly likely not to have worked on snug.  I THINK IT MAY MEAN RECALCULATED BUT I HAVE ALL MY BILLS BACK TO EVEN BEFORE THE SMART METER WAS INSTALLED.  

 

That not only the afternoon boost - iirc you said in an earlier post you thought you never saw that working - but the core 6 hours wasn't working either. AFTERNOON NEVER WORKED BUT OVERNIGHT ALWAYS WORKED AS IT HAD WITH E7.  I KNOW THIS BECAUSE THE HOT WATER LIGHT CAME ON AROUND 12.0 AND WAS ON UNTIL EARLY MORNING.  I WAS UNABLE TO CHECK HEATERS BECAUSE THERE IS NO WAY TO TELL WHEN THEY ARE SWITCHED ON – ONLY THAT THEY HEAT UP.  I DIDN’T EVEN NEED TO CHECK BECAUSE BY THE TIME THEY STOPPED SNUG, I HAD TURNED THE HEATING OFF ANYWAY.

I wonder if you can see daily 1/2 hourly use on their portal that far back  - or via an app like bright - to go back and have a look at what was going on tariff / ALCS if can see via kWh use wise (heaters etc often wont run for the whole say snug 6 core or e7 7 hr off peak window - so it's not always easy) - but you might see something at either end - as your smart meter will still have the data (13months worth).  I HAVE ALL THE SNUG BILLS SHOWING HALF HOURLY READINGS, INCLUDING THE COST AND KWH. 

I do wonder how often it was working - if at all - and how often it wasnt.  MY HEATING AND HOT WATER ALWAYS WORKED ON THE OLD E7 TARIFF AND ALWAYS WORKED ON THE NEW SNUG TARIFF.  THERE HAS BEEN NO BREAK IN SERVICE – HOT WATER ONLY CURRENTLY...  AS AN EX TEACHER, I DON’T PUT IT BACK ON UNTIL OCTOBER HALF TERM!

You could perhaps as suggested above  - being misled say by the system working default say E7 as far as HW and heating operating - the snug core 0030 0630 isnt that different from many default e7 0000 to 0700 or 0030 to 0730 etc nominal timings and trusted as the bills said 9p charged for most of that off peak heating - possibly all of it - it was all working.  THE HEATING TIMES CHANGED WITH THE SNUG TARIFF BUT ONLY BY LOSING MAYBE AN HOUR BUT THAT WAS FINE BY ME…ID NEVER BEEN ABLE TO HAVE IT ON FOR LESS TIME BEFORE BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER HAD CONTROL OVER IT.

But their is no excuse for them not spotting that and so sorting out the billing far earlier if was as the CS OP said - meter is incompatible.  (I don't suppose that you got that in writing ?)  OH YES, APART FROM A CALL ABOUT TAKING THE SURPLUS CREDIT. EVERYTHING HAS BEEN DONE BY EMAIL.  I HAVE SAVED ALL OF THEM AS A TIMELINE INTO A WORD DOC FOR EVIDENCE FOR THE OMBUDSMAN. 

That might have realistically meant the more expensive rates applying anyway - but then if they told you say in January your rates were higher - you would have known - and had chance to react.  Even if only to moderate use.  But you might have had alternatives.  Supplier - some suppliers offer much cheaper e7 rates for some regions at least to suit high off peak users for instance.  Others even tou possibly - but maybe not - as may require some wiring changes to install self timing.  I DIDN’T USE ANY MORE BECAUSE IT WAS CHEAPER – IT WAS JUST GREAT THAT HERE WAS A TARIIF THAT WOULD REDUCE MY BILLS AND DID = £707 DEC 24 TO APRIL 25 ON SNUG V 889 DEC 23 TO APR 24 ON FIXED LOYAL OCTOPUS

I am not sure if it might get you anywhere - but if your looking for a possible challange.   I HAVE PLENTY TO STICK TO THEM...THE MORE I CONTACT THEM THE MORE NAILS THEY PROVIDE ME WITH!

I would be intrigued to know if other forumites might think it worth say pursuing an argument something along the lines of turning around 2.14.7 and 2.14.9 in your Snug contract back on them...

The contract T&Cs are for them to revert after 30 days failure to control - but not arguably perhaps a shorter /  brief failure.  I JUST WANT TO BE BACK WHERE I WOULD HAVE BEEN HAD THEY NOT PULLED ME OFF SNUG, WHEN I WAS IN CREDIT FOR A COUPLE OF HUNDRED £S AND IT WOULD BE GOOD IF I COULD GET THE AFTERNOON BOOST.   

Like any contract between two parties - it should work both ways.

If they thought it was working well enough not to revert the tariff on your bills and put you on another tariff - for 3-4 months - and so if they left you on Snug for longer - shouldn't they then honour the tariff rates inc 9p snug off peak rates. THAT WOULD BE MY MAIN POINT, AND I HAVE GIVEN THEM EVERY CHANCE TO DO THIS, BUT THEY BLAME THE METER

As they are the ones responsible for monitoring that 30day condition - not the customer - it's their failure.  I AGREE
As per their T&Cs - they should perhaps have acted earlier - arguably theyvshould have acted earlier.  I AGREE, BUT MY OTHER MAIN POINT IS THAT THEY DIDN’T EVEN NEED TO.  THEY SAID THERE WAS A PROBLEM WHEN THERE WASN’T ONE

You might still lose the last 30 days - but maybe not the full period - Dec - Apr etc. I DON’T INTEND LOSING ANYTHING. I AM SO IN THE RIGHT ABOUT THIS!!!

Id certainly maybe asking them for an exact list of dates over the 4 months
- when they think snug smart scheduling  worked - if Snug control ever worked
- when they spotted it didn't
- when and what they tried to restart it (they have with others and its worked for a bit)
- and of course the dates they think it didn't respond at all so you meter reverted to e7 presets overnight.

I HAVE DONE ALL THIS AND PRESENTED THE QUESTIONS IN SO MANY WAYS, ALMOST LAYING IT OUT FOR THEM TO OWN UP, BUT THEY HAVE NO LOGIC.  SNUG WORKED! THEY DECIDED IT DIDN’T MID APRIL!  THEY TOLD ME IN MY APR TO MAY BILL! THAT BILL ALSO  PRESENTED ME WITH A 606 DEBT!  I HAD RECEIVED 400 OF MY 550 CREDIT JUST A FEW DAYS BEFORE.  NEITHER E7 NOR SNUG HAVE EVER NOT WORKED - NEVER!

It might make depressing reading - but it might prove they weren't monitoring for 30d failure correctly. 

If I thought my off peak was being billed at 9p - (its been double that on e10) - id be tempted to be less tight with temperatures and so use more energy for instance.  By not informing you for 4 months maybe you had too.  NO I DIDN’T, I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS GREAT TO HAVE GOT A GOOD DEAL.  THE ONLY THING WAS THE AFTERNOON BOOST. TBH, I COULD NEVER SEE HOW THEY COULD TURN ON OFF PEAK HEATING AND HOT WATER AROUND 1.AM AND KEEP IT ON UNTIL AROUND 7 AM BUT BE UNABLE TO DO THE SAME BETWEEN 3 AND 4.  IT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE BUT TBH, I ASKED A COUPLE OF TIMES, CHASED IT AND THEY ASKED IF I WANTED TO COME OFF THE TARIFF (AROUND CHRISTMAS).  I SAID NO, I WAS FINE BECAUSE THE TARIFF WOULD SAVE ME MONEY REGARDLESS.