Exit fee

jodie264

Hi and I am sorry that my original post didnt have much detail...Ive put a VERY brief summary the detail of which noone would believe.  Everything is prepared and I knew it was a complaint when they rebilled me for no reason for a meter fault that didnt exist and continued to say it was incompatible, then ok until one person actually seemed to be asking me what the problem was - clearly someone who had not read the trail of emails.  Literally, it would be hard to make it up.  My main focus has actually been to see if there was any way that they were correct and I was wrong but I just cant find any reason.  Even Kaifa, the meter suppliers said the meter I had was suitable and offered to contact them on my behalf!    I have been on E7 since 1981, have modern heaters and the meter was installed by Octopus - who I have been with since their inception.  I actually wondered whether they would charge the exit fee before I switched but decided to go ahead, curious about whether they would warn me about it.  I emailed the person who sent me the link to change and just said "why have I been charged an exit fee for switching from a tariff you put me on without my consent"  No reply yet!  Just another piece of ammunition for me...Oh and I will be interested to see whether they come back i  another few months and tell me I shouldnt have been allowed on the tariff - it will be for no reason again then.  I cant help thinking even if - though there is no 'if' to answer - they had incorrectly put me on an inappropriate tariff, how did that lead to a hefty increase in costs compared to the last ten years!  Sorry...its all beyond me!  And yes, formal complaint going in and will update if anyone want me to.  

jodie264

This is the blurb on the site about the tariff.  I have a second generation meter and half hourly readings show.  Their latest replacement charge is an estimate!!!!!?????

Octopus Energy launches UK’s first smart tariff for storage heaters

Octopus Energy has unveiled ‘Snug Octopus,’ the UK’s first smart tariff tailored specifically for traditional electric storage heaters.

28 November 2024

This new offering schedules storage heaters to operate during the cheapest and greenest energy periods, helping households stay warm while reducing energy costs.

The tariff provides up to six hours of cheap energy every night, with an additional hour in the afternoon for a boost during dinner time.

Customers can save almost £140 annually compared to standard Economy 7 tariffs without needing to invest in additional low-carbon technology.

Electric storage heaters store heat during off-peak hours, when electricity is cheaper, and release it during the day. ‘Snug Octopus’ further empowers users by allowing them to adjust heater runtimes, making it easy to reduce usage and costs, especially during warmer months.

Addressing fuel costs for vulnerable households

With around 1.7 million UK homes and over 180,000 housing association properties relying on storage heaters, the tariff targets a significant portion of households that are particularly vulnerable to rising energy prices.

Rebecca Dibb-Simkin, chief product officer at Octopus Energy Group, explained the significance of the initiative: “Many homes struggling with fuel costs use electric storage heaters, making them especially vulnerable to rising energy prices.

“Snug Octopus is designed to help these customers take charge of their heating, adjusting it to fit their personal needs and schedules – all while enjoying the peace of mind that comes from using energy at the cheapest and greenest times.”

jodie264

I know I could call them but there is SO much confusion around it all - despite it being a very straightforward thing to investigate - I cant begin to think how I could explain it.  When I try, no logic is attached.  For every  thing I tell them, the response is a common sense answer. Then they ask another question and I answer with one of the stupid things they have done and they get confused. The more they ask, the more ridiculous it gets, until they say they will refer to someone else. Nxt thing I get is an its all ok now and thnak you foe being such a good customer and why dont you try this tariff or go online or check your meter or send us readings or a million and one other pointless tasks!  I cant face doing that on the phone! I am a very confident retired teacher, and a pensioner but this has ground me down like no class of unruly children ever could! 
Rant over.  I'm taking the weekend to pull all my emails, bills and reducing balances and usage data in one simple place to refer to our energy friend - who have lovely real people on their phones to speak to you.  

Phones4Chris

@jodie264 You've answered my first previous question here, but not the one about the Call Centre (i've a reason for asking but it may not be at all relevant, so I'm not going to say unless it seems appropriate).
I have another question now, just to be clear, you were on E7 with Octopus before you went to Snug? If so, when they took you off Snug, why didn't they put you back onto E7 and have you asked them why?

vic_sf49

bristolleedsfan said:

vic_sf49 said:

The most recent fixed domestic tariffs with £75 exit fees that I can find, were 12 month fixes from Jan and Feb 2024.

Have I missed a newer one Op? 

Octopus launched 12 month fixed earlier this year with exit fees, clearly aimed at attracting new customers hoping to deter existing customers from changing tariff. ( I do not think it shows on historical tariff list)

They do show, and were the ones I was thinking of, as all of tariff hoppers, were shocked at the sudden appearance of exit fees. 

They were in April 2025, but only had £50 exit fees, so had to search much further back for the £75 ones in 2024. (Can't be sure I found every tariff that had exit fees though.) 

But we need to know which switch they've been applied against.

Was it when the Op moved from the Loyalty fix onto Snug, or when dumped off Snug, and I'm still not clear what's happened since Snug?

Scot_39

jodie264 said:

In a nutshell

Switched from a Loyalty Fixed rate to SNUG, a smart tariff for people with NSH and I have the correct meter.  Everything about my infrastructure was suitable.  My choice, excellent tariff that met my needs.

On SNUG 11.12.24 to 19.04.25.  Good rate, smart and in home meter showed same usage lower night rate. 

Told SNUG had been incompatible with my meter in May 2025…communication inadequate, despite my bills showing half hourly usage each month and costs…(33 page bills)

SNUG charges were reversed and replaced with a new charge at the old fixed rate tariff which was more than their quote for the entire year for Dec to May. 

In communication about this and I have the ‘8 week’ letter.  It is FAR too much to go into the contradictions and lack of human logic, despite fairly prompt responses.

At NO point have I reduced my payments and my usage has remained the same as it always has. 

 Three days ago, I received a new bill, reversing the original SNUG charges (£707) AND reversing the charge they replaced it with (£1596) and replacing both with yet another amount, (£1956) increasing the debt I dispute I have.    

Was told SNUG is the most suitable tariff after providing all information about meter and heating system.  Nothing is different from when I first went on the tariff. 

Followed the link and switched.  Received a bill this morning with a £75 exit fee charged!  My original point being – they put me on a fixed tariff I didn’t ask to be put on. 

Firstly - this reply really isn't about the exit fees - which on the face of it - I'd be tempted to argue they should perhaps wave any second set - but if the fees applied and you left the initial fix early - to go on Snug Octopus - then again they may be right.  But surely that would have been on the bill for the initial switch date in December

However on the comments re the actual operation - and the nothing physically changed in your home meter / set-up since Dec etc

Meter readings going to Octopus are not necessarily proof that Snug is operating correctly.

A couple of posters here - and others on other forums - have been defaulted back to their old meter preset ALCS timings - but remained on Snug rates for a little while - but after a period of failure to control the meter ALCS switching remotely - have - like you been told their meters are not compatible and moved to alternative tariffs.

When they have spotted - at least on one occassion - Octopus were able to get the control operating again - but it didn't last - and the homeowner spotted the failure before the 30 days condition kicked in.

One iirc left the tariff voluntarily after the second such failure - again likely before the 30 days up - as was by then looking for the signs I guess.  And then iirc attempted to switch away from Octopus completely.  Cancelled that and then think I read a later post saying moved to another suppliers TOU tariff (ALCS or not compatible - cannot remember) .

I notice you posted the normal "sales" page style customer info - but did you actually study the actual contractual terms and conditions ?

As from what you have said - I can see that they were in fact likely (apart from the exit fee issues - which I'll leave your complaint to resolve) - potentially following a combination of their smart generic - and their Snug Octopus specific detailed T&Cs

Both the failure after 30 days of succesful meter heating control - to be removed from Snug tariff and reverted to another tariff and the temporary reversion to preset ALCS are covered in the Snug Octopus section of the Octopus Smart Tariff T&Cs here

https://octopus.energy/policies/smart-tariffs-terms-and-condition/#snugoctopus

The reversion to meter preset ALCS - 2.14.9 - for temporary failures to control

The 30 days failure back to a "standard tariff" - in 2.14.7.

I'd assumed that 2.14.7 meant say back to E7 variable. But just wonder if you switched from say an E7 fix - they would switch you back to fix - as that was your preferred "standard" tariff (i.e. standard tariff as in not smart tariff in their eyes potentially. It doesn't explicitly say standard variable tariff - as in Ofgem SVT / deemed - so under cap - variable tariff.

And says you will be billed on that tariff - which I suppose in theory could be interpreted as applying to the whole period of the failure - and not just from the date moved over - as they weren't in control of your heating at those times.

So when were you actually first told your metering was incompatible - that they had lost control of it ?

If the back to start of 30 days applied - you would perhaps have been told in mid May - c the 18/19th - you could then be rolled back to 19/4 - and treated as off Snug from that date.  Or they mighthave told youy in Apr - and moved you off immediately from that point.

And to be fair - if you don't examine 1/2 hourly - I suspect most folk wouldn't I guess - so unless spotted say the loss of afternoon slot 1hr boost - the odds are of course by spring - you will still have your hot water - and if still active by mid - late April - your NSH heating overnight - so a warm house.

And unless looking very carefully - it all seems vaguely OK on the billing - unless you check it closely for a while at the 1/2 hour level.

The absence of the afternoon boost for many should have been easier to spot. 

But if you had timers on devices as well as restricted feeds - and werent set for it - or simply your NSH decided they didnt need more charge - you would have to look almost forensically at your half hourly data at either end of the snug and old say E7 timings - to see the fault. A casual glance at night data - would still show off peak use - and cheaper rates - which iirc in the graphs in their apps or in their portal - that users here were posting - werent at least at one stage scaled accurately - and also in some cases smoothed not stepped.

The last poster here who switched to it was struggling to get her afternoon off peak slot - not sure she ever confirmed it was fully working - and again the risk was she was seeing core 6 hours and meter preset E7 ALCS settings overlap - even then - but I'd have to reread the threads. She may have spotted that 2.14.9 style behavior as well - immediately after the switch - they tried for a day or two over a weekend iirc - then reverted to E7 - then switched - early in the following week to Snug "proper" iirc.

You for sure will have restricted feeds if Snug was working (power only active for 6 or 7 hours overnight + the 1 hour boost on snug in day) - but does your off peak water heater (assuming you have one) and your NSHs - have their own timers as well.

Can you tell us the make(s) / models of any timer on HW and of the NSH ?

If have own timers - even if NSH are dual wired - some standard TOU tariffs might be a better fit than E7.

You may not even need your wiring changed with some suppliers - like one Octopus customer on another forum - but their is a link posted to their posts in other thread here  - with NSH has reportedly moved to Cosy TOU - as with his NSH and water - he can set timings - so now sets himself to match the 8 hrs over 3 slots - to match the tariff times - from his restricted output driven 24/7 live - to do so - so no wiring mods needed - iirc.

jodie264

Thank you for this detailed information.  I will respond after I've read it more carefully.  My daughter is visiting today and Ive not seen her for a couple of months BUT to let people know - they reversed the exit fee and mentioedn I had an open complaint AND checking with some other suppliers, a very nice lady at British Gas chekced tariffs for me and found my property was not showing I had Economy 7 capacity AND my meter profile class (yes, thats a whole new one on me) shows as 900 on the national database and should be 811 like the other properties all built at the same time and no gas supply possible.  So the saga continues.  They just sent me another bill so I intend reading my meter daily from now on as well as checking the half hourly which is shwoing on the app.  I never got the afternoon boost and my fires dont have a timer I have any control over.  

QrizB

jodie264 said:

... and found my property was not showing I had Economy 7 capacity AND my meter profile class (yes, thats a whole new one on me) shows as 900 on the national database and should be 811 like the other properties all built at the same time and no gas supply possible.

811 and 900 are probably the MTC number. It's shown on your bill as part of your MPAN.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meter_Point_Administration_Number

Scot_39

jodie264 said:

1) Thank you for this detailed information.  I will respond after I've read it more carefully.  My daughter is visiting today and Ive not seen her for a couple of months BUT to let people know - they reversed the exit fee and mentioedn I had an open complaint AND checking with some other suppliers, 

2) a very nice lady at British Gas chekced tariffs for me and found my property was not showing I had Economy 7 capacity AND my meter profile class (yes, thats a whole new one on me) shows as 900 on the national database and should be 811 like the other properties all built at the same time and no gas supply possible.  So the saga continues.  

3) They just sent me another bill so I intend reading my meter daily from now on as well as checking the half hourly which is shwoing on the app.  

4) I never got the afternoon boost and my fires dont have a timer I have any control over.  

2) Beware BG - they have a history on multirate tariffs and e7 meters for some of their customers - and the MTC codes can change - and the same code apparently can be different timings at different DNOs (but not sure those 2 would be) - say if ever switched single rate to E7 and back again - and not all suppliers are good at keeping the national database up to date.

There wewre some posts with links to tables here last year - but couldnt get the few links I found quickly to work.

There are however a few who track meter / tariff times to MPANs closely here. 

4) That is the most worrying part of your reply - as suggests they never had proper control of your meter ALCS - and AFAIK Kaifa was pretty much one of their standard goto brand of meters when upgrading

Although the FAQ / sales says the 1 hr is winter - there were certainly people getting the afternoon 1 hour slot in April - as were quoting it was working but had now been at 4-5pm (in  DST) - not the 3-4 PM (in GMT) iirc  (it hadnt moved - the clocks do) - in the Rosie1001 threads

Ildhund

jodie264 said:

...  my meter profile class (yes, thats a whole new one on me) shows as 900 on the national database and should be 811 like the other properties ... 

It's really easy to get confused by the electricity supply industry jargon. A domestic Economy 7 metering system would normally be in Profile Class (PC) 02, while a single-rate one would be in PC 01. The numbers you quote are as the other respondents have pointed out not Profile Classes but Meter Timeswitch Class codes (MTC).

MTC 811 is a common, old-established timing regime which usually translates to Standard Settlement Configuration (SSC) 151. This is what tells us what the offpeak hours are using Time Pattern Regimes (TPR). SSC 151 covers two TPRs, like this:
  

SSC	TPR	Description	Rate name
151	43	Weekdays & Weekends 0000-0030, 0730-2400	Day
151	210	All days 0030-0730	Offpeak/Weekends

  
This is a bog-standard Economy 7 regime with its seven-hour offpeak period starting at 00:30 GMT.

MTC 900 is less easy to pin down, but it looks like a generic smart meter arrangement set up for half-hourly settlement. Its description in the Elexon database is HH COP 10 - where HH just means half-hourly and COP 10 is the metering code of practice for settlement of low-voltage supplies <75kW. Perhaps this meter was just registered wrongly on the database.

Navigating the Elexon Market Domain Database (MDD) is a nightmare and not for the faint-hearted.