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jodie264

Dont know how this fits with everything but here goes.
As I said, house was built with a dual rate supply meter - back in the old Midlands Electricity Board days (for Birmingham) before we had any choice about suppliers.  
All meters will remain dual rate UNLESS people dont want to use chepa overnight though I have no idea why they wouldn't because regardless of the tariff, its the nearest to central heating anyone is able to get round here.  
I checked all my old bills - back to 2023 and up to May 2025 when the problem began.
2023 bills and earlier METER = 2  811  4   ALL on E7 with Octopus
SNUG bills = 2  811  4  Between 11th Dec 2024 and May 5th 2025 
May 7th bill = 2  900  632   Reversed charges, put back on old E7 tariff and charged LOADS more than I had done ever before.  Told meter incompatible etc etc etc
Move back to SNUG when they told me it was my cheapest tariff and most suitable for my needs and home infrastructure.  
Any ideas? 

jodie264

Just found this on USWITCH energy advice page  about MPAN and other tech stuff.  My next question to OCTOPUS was going to be who could change the MPAN and why was it changed until I found this   "Unlike your account number, which identifies you as a person, both MPAN and MPRN numbers are permanently tied to your property. Therefore, they stay the same when you switch tariff or supplier. They also don’t move home when you do, which means you need to know these numbers when you move home or switch energy suppliers."

QrizB

jodie264 said:

My next question to OCTOPUS was going to be who could change the MPAN and why was it changed until I found this

The top line of your MPAN can be changed by your supplier.

The bottom line is permanent.

jodie264

So the advice page is incorrect then?  There was another site that said the same - I never settle for just one bit of guidance lol

Ildhund

jodie264 said:

... who could change the MPAN and why was it changed ...

Yesterday, I mentioned the confusion that arises when jargon is involved. The problem in this case is that MPAN - Meter Point Administration Number - is used quite haphazardly to refer to either one of:

• The panel you see on bills with a big S at the left-hand end and a number of boxes on two rows to the right; 
• The long number on the bottom line, starting with a two-digit number at the left-hand end (identifying the distribution company) and ending in a three-digit check sequence. The bit in between is the Meter Point ID, and this is the part that those who need to and other nosy parkers can look up to find your address. The full 13-digit sequence is what you may be asked for, e.g. by support staff or engineers working for the supplier or distributor. 

So when Uswitch and others say that the MPAN always stays the same, they are referring to the 13-digit bottom line of the MPAN proper. As @QrizB points out, the contents of the three boxes on the top line can change to reflect different metering arrangements. Your latest version has some of us scratching our heads, because it's different from what we're used to. It's being used by Octopus to identify meters used for Time of Use billing.
  

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Tip: In case you were wondering, professionals pronounce MPAN like the first five letters of empanada. 

jodie264

At last, something that is puzzling others.  As my last post said, everything was alright when it was 2  811 4.  This was the number for years and years, even when I was on the SNUG dual rate tariff.  It literally changed within hours of the charges doubling and the whole 'incompatible' saga.  I hope you can see my bewilderment.  I have had no problems and always been on dual rate.  

jodie264

Anyone any ideas why it was changed though?  I cant see why they would need to given Id been on both an E7 and a SNUG tariff with no need to change it.  I wonder if it could be AI?  Only thing is, its only as good as the people who interact with it.    

Phones4Chris

jodie264 said:

At last, something that is puzzling others.  As my last post said, everything was alright when it was 2  811 4.  This was the number for years and years, even when I was on the SNUG dual rate tariff.  It literally changed within hours of the charges doubling and the whole 'incompatible' saga.  I hope you can see my bewilderment.  I have had no problems and always been on dual rate.  

It's the MTC 900 that is puzzling us at the moment as we have little/no experience with it, and the fact that judging by some of the responses I've now seen the PC can be 1 or 2 (the fact it used to stated as 01 or 02 is irrelevant) and you can forget the last digit, the 4 in your case, it has to do with distribution losses and means just about nothing to us mere mortals, it's something between the Supplier and the DNO.
As previously stated 2 811 is for a Standard E7 Tariff.

Phones4Chris

jodie264 said:

Anyone any ideas why it was changed though?  I cant see why they would need to given Id been on both an E7 and a SNUG tariff with no need to change it.  I wonder if it could be AI?  Only thing is, its only as good as the people who interact with it.    

It was changed because it should have been changed IMHO when your tariff changed to Snug. My guess is that Octopus have been somewhat lax in dealing with this, and they aren't the only supplier that has failed to update this part of the information correctly in a timely manner and make sure it's correct on the National Database. Yours isn't the only one where the MTC has not been correctly updated and it has caused problem for some when trying to change supplier (as has been mentioned in a couple of places recently).
As mentioned by @QrizB and @Ildhund it's all to do with confusing jargon, and I would add laziness/sloppiness as too many of us (me included) have referred to what is the "Supply Number" which is both the top and bottom lines as MPAN, when the MPAN is only the bottom line and will never change for a given property supply.
The top line should change with the tariff changes. If you aren't on a Standard E7 tariff it should NOT remain as 2 811.

Phones4Chris

jodie264 said:

I checked all my old bills - back to 2023 and up to May 2025 when the problem began.

2023 bills and earlier METER = 2  811  4   ALL on E7 with Octopus
SNUG bills = 2  811  4  Between 11th Dec 2024 and May 5th 2025 
May 7th bill = 2  900  632   Reversed charges, put back on old E7 tariff and charged LOADS more than I had done ever before.  Told meter incompatible etc etc etc
Move back to SNUG when they told me it was my cheapest tariff and most suitable for my needs and home infrastructure.  
Any ideas? 

Can we be clear here please - they've now put you back on Snug?
I've commented about the MTC in my other reply.
So if you are back on Snug, they should be correcting your bills and back-dating (IMHO) to Snug rates throughout the whole period 11th Dec 2024 until now, they have all the meter data, there is no excuse.
What I haven't fully grasped is when taken off Snug, if you were put back on E7, whilst the off-peak is more expensive than on Snug, your comments sounded like they were charging you not an E7 off-peak rate which in the West Midlands (your region code 14) isn't one of the most expensive.