DWP forcing me to repay a debt caused by identity fraud

myDWPhell

Robbie64 said:

The phone number on the letter is no longer valid. It's the phone number of what used to be the Universal Credit live service, one of two business areas that used to exist for UC, the other being Universal credit full service. Only the latter survives as does its phone number 0800 328 5644. The old live service was the first version of Universal Credit and hasn't existed for a few years. As FIREDreamer has posted, the DWP need to update their template. Since it was created (possibly back in 2017 when the old number switched to the one on your letter) we've lost both the previous version of Universal Credit and the Queen!

Wow, no wonder I couldn’t get through lol! I wanted to demand:
A full retraction of ALL their allegations 
An apology 
An explanation 
An assurance that all records associated with that claim would be removed from my personal details 
An assurance that safeguards would be put in place to ensure that there wasn’t a repeat of this experience for me

I presume they’d agree to none of my demands! 

Do you happen to know the new number for UC appeals? 

Muttleythefrog

myDWPhell said:

Muttleythefrog said:

I think I'd be so angry I'd refuse to accept their decision and go to appeal... but then sense probably would prevail in my mind. They have discovered a material fact that replaces presumably what they considered a 'material fact' that you did make the claim.
I wonder if you're able to get hold of documentation they intended (or had) supplied to Tribunals service

You’re right, I’m absolutely furious. I did wonder if I would still be in a position to force it through to the Tribunal. I’d genuinely be tempted. They were so forceful, strident and forthright in their accusations in their MRN. There was no, we allege that you …. It was all, you DID this, you DID that … Now it’s all, oh no, actually you didn’t. I really am angry. 

I never considered getting hold of the documentation they’d intended to use. That would be fascinating. Mind you, given that up until the MRN they failed to provide me with any information I requested I doubt they’d give it to me. 

Yes DWP language can be quite shocking if you've lived a life where you communicate honestly and are an honest person able to communicate basic information. When I applied for Disability Living Allowance I probably was more disabled by the refusal decision than mental illness... it fundamentally attacks your character... saying in black and white terms 'you do not x' when you clearly know that's not true... or 'you do y' when you do not.... a stranger you've never met telling you about you as if you are delusional and unable to know fact from fiction. I was so angry I pursued the claim to success. Ironically I am now about to sue my GP surgery... they feel gaslighting is a tactic of defence.... they even have chopped a sentence of my initial report of health problems to avoid reference to blood in order to claim I never ever mentioned such over months. Fortunately like you perhaps I have plenty self assurance and esteem... and will not buckle in the face of authority figures or bodies telling you things about you that are false. 

NedS

myDWPhell said:

Muttleythefrog said:

I think I'd be so angry I'd refuse to accept their decision and go to appeal... but then sense probably would prevail in my mind. They have discovered a material fact that replaces presumably what they considered a 'material fact' that you did make the claim.
I wonder if you're able to get hold of documentation they intended (or had) supplied to Tribunals service

You’re right, I’m absolutely furious. I did wonder if I would still be in a position to force it through to the Tribunal. I’d genuinely be tempted. They were so forceful, strident and forthright in their accusations in their MRN. There was no, we allege that you …. It was all, you DID this, you DID that … Now it’s all, oh no, actually you didn’t. I really am angry. 

I never considered getting hold of the documentation they’d intended to use. That would be fascinating. Mind you, given that up until the MRN they failed to provide me with any information I requested I doubt they’d give it to me. 

How do you think the over-worked magistrate would view you if you did that? You've got the desired outcome, a tribunal cannot apologise on behalf of DWP so you'd be wasting everyone's time (including your own) and I assure you a tribunal would take a very dim view of that. DWP has handed you full and unqualified victory on a plate, a tribunal can't give you any more than that. Hasn't enough of your time been wasted already?

As I explained many pages back, your chances of getting any more than you have already got are slim to none, and if I were a betting person, I'd bet on the none end of that range.

You could make a formal complaint and ask for a written apology acknowledging the stress and suffering this has caused, but most likely you'd get a complaints manager phone you and explain that DWP have changed their decision in your favour and close your complaint as resolved. If they sent you a letter, what would you do with it - frame it and hang it on the wall?

Really, I get you are angry (I had to edit the term I originally used as the forum filters did not like it!), and that it's been an immensely frustrating process getting this victory, but for your own sake let it go. You have your victory and rightly so.

myDWPhell

Muttleythefrog said:

myDWPhell said:

Muttleythefrog said:

I think I'd be so angry I'd refuse to accept their decision and go to appeal... but then sense probably would prevail in my mind. They have discovered a material fact that replaces presumably what they considered a 'material fact' that you did make the claim.
I wonder if you're able to get hold of documentation they intended (or had) supplied to Tribunals service

You’re right, I’m absolutely furious. I did wonder if I would still be in a position to force it through to the Tribunal. I’d genuinely be tempted. They were so forceful, strident and forthright in their accusations in their MRN. There was no, we allege that you …. It was all, you DID this, you DID that … Now it’s all, oh no, actually you didn’t. I really am angry. 

I never considered getting hold of the documentation they’d intended to use. That would be fascinating. Mind you, given that up until the MRN they failed to provide me with any information I requested I doubt they’d give it to me. 

Yes DWP language can be quite shocking if you've lived a life where you communicate honestly and are an honest person able to communicate basic information. When I applied for Disability Living Allowance I probably was more disabled by the refusal decision than mental illness... it fundamentally attacks your character... saying in black and white terms 'you do not x' when you clearly know that's not true... or 'you do y' when you do not.... a stranger you've never met telling you about you as if you are delusional and unable to know fact from fiction. I was so angry I pursued the claim to success. Ironically I am now about to sue my GP surgery... they feel gaslighting is a tactic of defence.... they even have chopped a sentence of my initial report of health problems to avoid reference to blood in order to claim I never ever mentioned such over months. Fortunately like you perhaps I have plenty self assurance and esteem... and will not buckle in the face of authority figures or bodies telling you things about you that are false. 

Absolutely, well said. And I know what you mean about not buckling, their attitude just makes you all the more determined. Honestly, when I’ve read through some of their communications, they’re libellous, nothing less! I was seething. I’ve taken every opportunity to complain. I’ve submitted about 17 formal complaints, I’ve submitted a formal complaint to the information Commissioner’s office - which was upheld. Next stop is ICE. They operate like some sort of unaccountable criminal enterprise. 

myDWPhell

NedS said:

myDWPhell said:

Muttleythefrog said:

I think I'd be so angry I'd refuse to accept their decision and go to appeal... but then sense probably would prevail in my mind. They have discovered a material fact that replaces presumably what they considered a 'material fact' that you did make the claim.
I wonder if you're able to get hold of documentation they intended (or had) supplied to Tribunals service

You’re right, I’m absolutely furious. I did wonder if I would still be in a position to force it through to the Tribunal. I’d genuinely be tempted. They were so forceful, strident and forthright in their accusations in their MRN. There was no, we allege that you …. It was all, you DID this, you DID that … Now it’s all, oh no, actually you didn’t. I really am angry. 

I never considered getting hold of the documentation they’d intended to use. That would be fascinating. Mind you, given that up until the MRN they failed to provide me with any information I requested I doubt they’d give it to me. 

How do you think the over-worked magistrate would view you if you did that? You've got the desired outcome, a tribunal cannot apologise on behalf of DWP so you'd be wasting everyone's time (including your own) and I assure you a tribunal would take a very dim view of that. DWP has handed you full and unqualified victory on a plate, a tribunal can't give you any more than that. Hasn't enough of your time been wasted already?

As I explained many pages back, your chances of getting any more than you have already got are slim to none, and if I were a betting person, I'd bet on the none end of that range.

You could make a formal complaint and ask for a written apology acknowledging the stress and suffering this has caused, but most likely you'd get a complaints manager phone you and explain that DWP have changed their decision in your favour and close your complaint as resolved. If they sent you a letter, what would you do with it - frame it and hang it on the wall?

Really, I get you are angry (I had to edit the term I originally used as the forum filters did not like it!), and that it's been an immensely frustrating process getting this victory, but for your own sake let it go. You have your victory and rightly so.

The DWP may have changed their decision but I’m not sure I’d entirely agree that theyve “handed me a full and unqualified victory on a plate”. Even if they had it’s nothing less than I should expect, really! 

I do intend to press them for a full retraction and apology. I accept that offering that would be entirely out of character for the DWP. However, on that front I another national newspaper who are planning on pushing for that outcome. They have in the past offered apologies so I’m not giving up. I get that I can’t get too hung up on it but I will continue to press them for an apology etc. I’ll also submit my ICE application. The ICO got back to me this week and upheld my complaint. 

It’s probably difficult to get across what the DWP have needlessly put me through. It’s been the worst 12 months of my life. I am in NO WAY whatsoever a conspiracy theorist but there have been times where I’ve seriously wondered what on earth was going on. It’s been beyond comprehension. 

Robbie64

myDWPhell said:

Robbie64 said:

The phone number on the letter is no longer valid. It's the phone number of what used to be the Universal Credit live service, one of two business areas that used to exist for UC, the other being Universal credit full service. Only the latter survives as does its phone number 0800 328 5644. The old live service was the first version of Universal Credit and hasn't existed for a few years. As FIREDreamer has posted, the DWP need to update their template. Since it was created (possibly back in 2017 when the old number switched to the one on your letter) we've lost both the previous version of Universal Credit and the Queen!

Wow, no wonder I couldn’t get through lol! I wanted to demand:
A full retraction of ALL their allegations 
An apology 
An explanation 
An assurance that all records associated with that claim would be removed from my personal details 
An assurance that safeguards would be put in place to ensure that there wasn’t a repeat of this experience for me

I presume they’d agree to none of my demands! 

Do you happen to know the new number for UC appeals? 

The number on the letter you received is for the old UC helpline rather than a dedicated UC appeals phone number. I'm assuming you would have to phone the current main UC number (0800 328 5644) to get to speak to someone from appeals. Of course, you'll then be stuck with having to answer the security questions...

myDWPhell

Robbie64 said:

myDWPhell said:

Robbie64 said:

The phone number on the letter is no longer valid. It's the phone number of what used to be the Universal Credit live service, one of two business areas that used to exist for UC, the other being Universal credit full service. Only the latter survives as does its phone number 0800 328 5644. The old live service was the first version of Universal Credit and hasn't existed for a few years. As FIREDreamer has posted, the DWP need to update their template. Since it was created (possibly back in 2017 when the old number switched to the one on your letter) we've lost both the previous version of Universal Credit and the Queen!

Wow, no wonder I couldn’t get through lol! I wanted to demand:
A full retraction of ALL their allegations 
An apology 
An explanation 
An assurance that all records associated with that claim would be removed from my personal details 
An assurance that safeguards would be put in place to ensure that there wasn’t a repeat of this experience for me

I presume they’d agree to none of my demands! 

Do you happen to know the new number for UC appeals? 

The number on the letter you received is for the old UC helpline rather than a dedicated UC appeals phone number. I'm assuming you would have to phone the current main UC number (0800 328 5644) to get to speak to someone from appeals. Of course, you'll then be stuck with having to answer the security questions...

I called that number. I couldn’t answer her questions but she’s arranged for a case manager to call me. 

Thanks 

myDWPhell

https://swllc.org/2021/05/06/dwp-issues-apology-to-victim-of-universal-credit-fraud-after-the-law-centre-takes-on-her-case/

It’s not just me. This must have happened to hundreds if not thousands of innocent victims. Victims of fraud and victims of the DWP. 

“She immediately called the DWP who transferred her between departments, each time promising to call her back. She heard nothing more from them until her employer received a letter instructing them to deduct £300 from her salary each month until the £1,475 was paid back in full.”

Typical!

“To make matters worse, one phone call she made to the DWP was cut off when she failed the security check because her phone number and password had been changed.”

I could never answer their security questions either - that’s because they used security questions created by the fraudulent claimant! 

On a more positive note:

”Her case was taken on by the Law Centre’s Money Advice team who sent a complaint letter to the DWP on her behalf along with all the relevant documentation. In response, the DWP issued a written apology.”

DWP - Not fit for purpose! 

myDWPhell

ICO complaint upheld.

Following my submission of a formal complaint with the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) against the DWP earlier this year I recently received their response. 

My complaint regarded the DWP’s responses/lack of responses to my Subject Access Requests and my concerns over their handling of my data security. The ICO held:

“Having considered the information provided, I am of the opinion that DWP have not fully complied with their data protection obligations.”

The ICO also commented:

“I have asked DWP to address your security concerns and consider what steps can be taken to effectively communicate with you and other individuals when challenging alleged fraudulent claims.”

DWP - Not fit for purpose! 

myDWPhell

October 4th 2025

Still no “Lapse” letter 

I’m presuming it will be headed up as “lapse” letter?

DWP - Not fit for purpose!