DWP forcing me to repay a debt caused by identity fraud

Spoonie_Turtle

Congratulations that you've had the right outcome, at long last.

A 'lapsed' appeal (in this context, anyway, I don't know about wider legal processes) is when DWP decides in your favour before the case is heard by the tribunal panel.  It happens with other benefits too.

Newcad

myDWPhell 

..... my case has been one characterised by gross negligence, maladministration, incompetence and potential malpractice on the part of the DWP. 

I'm afraid that around this and similar fora that is simply called "Business as usual" for the DWP.

Those of us who need to claim benefits all know it.

Unfortunately people who don't need to claim benefits believe the propaganda that all is well with the benefits system, except that  benefits claimants are all scroungers/frauds/criminals.

Sorry, I'm pushing forum rules a bit there.

myDWPhell

badmemory said:

Nothing like a bit of press attention to concentrate the mind

Absolutely, but it really shouldn’t come to the point where you feel that you have no choice but to go to the media to get a fair and prompt resolution. It had been something I’d considered for a while but done nothing about. Then a friend told me that I really needed to change tack. She suggested reaching out to the media in an effort to bring attention to my case. Up until that point I’d been trying to work with and communicate with the DWP but to no avail. However, getting the press involved definitely got things moving. Even before their “change of decision”, they’d replied to one of my letters. It was the first “reply” I’d had in the 11 plus months that this has been going on. 

Great news though

myDWPhell

Spoonie_Turtle said:

Congratulations that you've had the right outcome, at long last.

A 'lapsed' appeal (in this context, anyway, I don't know about wider legal processes) is when DWP decides in your favour before the case is heard by the tribunal panel.  It happens with other benefits too.

Ah, I see. As I said, as a term it just seemed vague and ambiguous. It didn’t really sound like some sort of concrete vindication. It almost sounds like it had expired! Thanks for the clarification. 

It still doesn’t seem real yet. I woke up this morning and as usual the first thing to come into my head was the DWP. In fact it’s often the DWP that wakes me up. I had to remind myself that it’s over. Mind you, until I have the letter confirming it in my hand I won’t feel completely safe. 

myDWPhell

Newcad said:

myDWPhell 

..... my case has been one characterised by gross negligence, maladministration, incompetence and potential malpractice on the part of the DWP. 

I'm afraid that around this and similar fora that is simply called "Business as usual" for the DWP.

Those of us who need to claim benefits all know it.

Unfortunately people who don't need to claim benefits believe the propaganda that all is well with the benefits system, except that  benefits claimants are all scroungers/frauds/criminals.

Sorry, I'm pushing forum rules a bit there.

I’m not on benefits but I’m with you on what you’re saying. I’ve read plenty examples to know that life is made unnecessarily difficult for those who are on benefits and genuinely need help. 

It infuriates me when the right wing media weaponise benefits and lay the blame for all society’s ills with “benefits” and those claiming them. I often think that the amount of money squirrelled away, taxes avoided, grants obtained etc by the rich/super rich must vastly outweigh anything paid to the “poor” in benefits. 

“Trickle down economics”, I think “crumbs from the table economics” would be a more accurate description. 

myDWPhell

myDWPhell said:

badmemory said:

Nothing like a bit of press attention to concentrate the mind

Absolutely, but it really shouldn’t come to the point where you feel that you have no choice but to go to the media to get a fair and prompt resolution. It had been something I’d considered for a while but done nothing about. Then a friend told me that I really needed to change tack. She suggested reaching out to the media in an effort to bring attention to my case. Up until that point I’d been trying to work with and communicate with the DWP but to no avail. However, getting the press involved definitely got things moving. Even before their “change of decision”, they’d replied to one of my letters. It was the first “reply” I’d had in the 11 plus months that this has been going on. 

Great news though

It really is beyond any doubt. If it wasn’t for the intervention of the media I would be in exactly the same position I was before. 

The ONLY REASON my case was prioritised,  pushed to the front of the queue and dealt with within a few days was due to the media attention it had received and the fact that multiple major UK newspapers were contacting the DWP press office.

There was no other reason it received such prompt attention. 

The reason I was cleared was due to the overwhelming and irrefutable evidence I submitted to the Tribunal but without the media I’d still be at the bottom of the pile. 

NedS

myDWPhell said:

As for the “lapse letter”. The agent at the Tribunal I spoke with yesterday told me that I would receive a “lapse letter” from the DWP in the coming days. However, I’ll certainly take your advice and contact the Tribunal on Monday for further clarification on the points you raised. 

I was a bit curious about the term “lapse”, it almost seems a little vague and ambiguous. It almost sounds like it’s timed out. 

Yes, that's the standard practice - DWP will notify you of their change of decision. However, the normal process for that would be to upload the letter to your UC account as all UC communications are online. My worry in your case is (a) will the agent responsible for notifying you realise you do not have access to the account, and if they do, (b) where will they post the notification letter as the only address they have will likely be the address held on the UC claim, which may not be your address. And if you don't receive written notification, who would you contact? If you phone UC, you'll be playing the guess the security questions game again before anyone will talk to you.

Google says: The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) defines a lapsed appeal as where they have revised and changed their decision in favour of the appellant after the appellant has lodged an appeal but before it has been heard at the Tribunal.

myDWPhell

NedS said:

myDWPhell said:

As for the “lapse letter”. The agent at the Tribunal I spoke with yesterday told me that I would receive a “lapse letter” from the DWP in the coming days. However, I’ll certainly take your advice and contact the Tribunal on Monday for further clarification on the points you raised. 

I was a bit curious about the term “lapse”, it almost seems a little vague and ambiguous. It almost sounds like it’s timed out. 

Yes, that's the standard practice - DWP will notify you of their change of decision. However, the normal process for that would be to upload the letter to your UC account as all UC communications are online. My worry in your case is (a) will the agent responsible for notifying you realise you do not have access to the account, and if they do, (b) where will they post the notification letter as the only address they have will likely be the address held on the UC claim, which may not be your address. And if you don't receive written notification, who would you contact? If you phone UC, you'll be playing the guess the security questions game again before anyone will talk to you.

Google says: The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) defines a lapsed appeal as where they have revised and changed their decision in favour of the appellant after the appellant has lodged an appeal but before it has been heard at the Tribunal.

Yes, I see what you mean. As for the journal/account, as you said I have absolutely no access to this. DWP Debt Management have used “my” address to write to me throughout this protracted process* (after I’d corrected the fraudulent address they had on their system during my initial phone call with them) and I did receive a letter from a DWP Complaints Resolution Manager last week. It was the first time that they’d ever replied to any of my letters - their unexpected reply came out of the blue following all the recent media attention. However, they did send it to my own and actual postal address which might be a good sign that I’ll receive the letter. That said, DWP Debt Management were always happy to verify me on a phone call based on my own actual personal details whereas UC were not, so that might mean I don’t receive the letter! I never could comprehend why DWP Debt Management would verify me based on my own details (on a call) but UC would not! They seemed to act like two entirely separate entities. When I called UC back in March the day after receiving their Decision Review letter to request a copy of the “written explanation”. The agent told me that I couldn’t have a copy despite it being an entitlement. The grounds for her refusal were that the claim was closed and there was no address. Bemused and exasperated I asked why they wouldn’t send it to my address. From memory she seemed to suggest it had to be sent to the address associated with the claim!!! I reminded her that I’d been receiving the DWP Debt Management letters and that they were sent to my address. We went around in circles and got nowhere. 

*I didn’t receive the LBA or the DEA letters because at that point the address for me on the system was the fraudulent UC claim address. The fraudulent UC claim seemed to somehow change my address throughout the entire government system including HMRC. This explains my huge surprise at having a chunk of my wage deducted from my pay. Obviously I’d have been surprised (furious) if I’d received the notification that this was due to happen but the way it happened left me dumbfounded. 

Thanks for the definition, that’s very reassuring. 

myDWPhell

myDWPhell said:

NedS said:

myDWPhell said:

As for the “lapse letter”. The agent at the Tribunal I spoke with yesterday told me that I would receive a “lapse letter” from the DWP in the coming days. However, I’ll certainly take your advice and contact the Tribunal on Monday for further clarification on the points you raised. 

I was a bit curious about the term “lapse”, it almost seems a little vague and ambiguous. It almost sounds like it’s timed out. 

Yes, that's the standard practice - DWP will notify you of their change of decision. However, the normal process for that would be to upload the letter to your UC account as all UC communications are online. My worry in your case is (a) will the agent responsible for notifying you realise you do not have access to the account, and if they do, (b) where will they post the notification letter as the only address they have will likely be the address held on the UC claim, which may not be your address. And if you don't receive written notification, who would you contact? If you phone UC, you'll be playing the guess the security questions game again before anyone will talk to you.

Google says: The Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) defines a lapsed appeal as where they have revised and changed their decision in favour of the appellant after the appellant has lodged an appeal but before it has been heard at the Tribunal.

Yes, I see what you mean. As for the journal/account, as you said I have absolutely no access to this. DWP Debt Management have used “my” address to write to me throughout this protracted process* (after I’d corrected the fraudulent address they had on their system during my initial phone call with them) and I did receive a letter from a DWP Complaints Resolution Manager last week. It was the first time that they’d ever replied to any of my letters - their unexpected reply came out of the blue following all the recent media attention. However, they did send it to my own and actual postal address which might be a good sign that I’ll receive the letter. That said, DWP Debt Management were always happy to verify me on a phone call based on my own actual personal details whereas UC were not, so that might mean I don’t receive the letter! I never could comprehend why DWP Debt Management would verify me based on my own details (on a call) but UC would not! They seemed to act like two entirely separate entities. When I called UC back in March the day after receiving their Decision Review letter to request a copy of the “written explanation”. The agent told me that I couldn’t have a copy despite it being an entitlement. The grounds for her refusal were that the claim was closed and there was no address. Bemused and exasperated I asked why they wouldn’t send it to my address. From memory she seemed to suggest it had to be sent to the address associated with the claim!!! I reminded her that I’d been receiving the DWP Debt Management letters and that they were sent to my address. We went around in circles and got nowhere. 

*I didn’t receive the LBA or the DEA letters because at that point the address for me on the system was the fraudulent UC claim address. The fraudulent UC claim seemed to somehow change my address throughout the entire government system including HMRC. This explains my huge surprise at having a chunk of my wage deducted from my pay. Obviously I’d have been surprised (furious) if I’d received the notification that this was due to happen but the way it happened left me dumbfounded. 

Thanks for the definition, that’s very reassuring. 

I am of course aware that DWP Debt Management and DWP Universal Credit are different departments but they’re different departments within the same department! It was beyond infuriating that Debt Management - the section that took my money every month were more than happy to speak with me and verify me using my own details but DWP UC in the main refused to communicate with me or verify me based on my own details. If the DWP were holding me liable then they should have discussed the details of the claim with me. I’d say that they couldn’t have their cake and eat it - but they did! At the very least there should be a system in place for cases such as mine or potentially such as mine. Where I could have a point of contact or a way back which I could discuss my case. The DWP’s treatment of me was deplorable and unconscionable. 

Robbie64

^

The reason why DWP Debt Management coul speak to you, but UC couldn't is down to different computer systems. It's impossible for the UC telephony agent to view a UC account unless the "correct" (or in your case, it would be incorrect) details are entered into the system. The agent won't already have access to your UC account, but rather a screen with a security question on it. If the answer input is incorrect then the agent can't proceed to the next screen and therefore won't be able to view the UC account (or at least, shouldn't be able to view the UC account).

Debt Management (DWP DM) have a different set up and can access your records (not UC records, simply records of any debt owing to the DWP) based on something like name and date of birth and NI number. Though the interesting one would be where did DWP DM get your address? Possibly from HMRC records, though that is guesswork.

Congratulations on getting the DWP to lapse the appeal though of course that is only half the work done. Will the newspaper be doing a follow up article? It would be good for the DWP to admit to making an error in some form of official statement, which could be published in the newspaper. Hopefully you won't ever need to claim UC, but if you do, you'll need to ensure that this UC account is not linked back to you. I don't know what the DWP do if an account if proven to be fraudulent but obviously you don't want it to still exist with your details. Maybe another SAR a few months down the road might be worth doing. You should get back "No trace of an account found" rather than getting back anything resembliong what has happened so far (i.e. an account is there but they can't provide the information you've asked for). I'd also be seeking compensation from the DWP. You won't get much - maybe £50 as a first offer and £200 as the ultimate recompense but at least it gets them to acknowledge that their systems have both allowed fraud to happen and have caused distress to the person affected by it. Any compensation award should be accomapnied by a letter of apology...