The holy grail of university education.

anewman

conradmum wrote: »

If you're on a low income you aren't expected to support your child through uni. They get a grant and can take out a full loan if they want to.

You make it sound like the debt is choice :rolleyes:

I'm sure you know it isn't though

Firefly

studentphil wrote: »

I see, so all that shows is that univ. is mainly for middle class people and has nothing to with intelligence which is equal through all classes.

I doubt that coming from a single parent family my daughter, when at school, would instantly have been categorised as middle class. She is intelligent and did go to university with her like-minded peers as she was encouraged and given ambition by her school and family. We may have been poor but that didn't stop us all wanting to achieve. She's mainly paid her own way through uni financially, OK she didn't have to pay fees due to family income, but she worked incredibly hard on her studies and to support herself through them. She'll be paying for that for some years to come. What she did have was encouragement and emotional support from her family who wanted her to achieve and that is nothing to do with being "Middle Class". She's now doing a Doctorate. She's had the time of her life and will continue to do so for many years to come.

Isn't it strange how experiences differ? Life is what you make of it.

Carmina_Piranha_3

studentphil wrote: »

I see, so all that shows is that univ. is mainly for middle class people and has nothing to with intelligence which is equal through all classes.

what does middle class mean anyway?

i met lots of people like me - from tiny houses on council estates- when i was at uni.

if intelligence is distributed equally among all classes then what's stopping the other classes from going? i'm pretty sure all classes were represented at my uni, from commoners like me to the children of millionnaires who got their may ball dresses designed by jasper whatsit.

if poor people want to go to uni they can build up debt, and conradmum says there's some sort of grant available. there the EMA for the A levels part. commoners like me can go to uni if it's what they want.

Carmina_Piranha_3

http://unimoney.direct.gov.uk/financial-help/grants/

"But I thought the days of student grants were over!"
Well, they’re not. In fact, next year, around two thirds of all new full-time students will be getting a non-repayable grant - known as a Maintenance Grant - to help with accommodation and other living costs while at uni.
A third of all new students are expected to receive the full amount of Maintenance Grant (£2,835), while the further third will receive a partial grant, depending on household income.
You could qualify for at least a partial grant if your household income is under £60,005.

and the site includes a martin lewis guide http://unimoney.direct.gov.uk/lewis/

anewman

£2,835 is a joke compared to the previous system of a loan and fees paid. Just goes to show that when it comes out of their pocket, not yours, your suddently entitled to less. I think I worked out I'd have been better off under the new finance system, however, but I guess it depends largely on the fees.

Now you get a loan for the fees instead, so it's not completely debt free.

Sola

Carmina_Piranha wrote: »

next year, around two thirds of all new full-time students will be getting a non-repayable grant - known as a Maintenance Grant - to help with accommodation and other living costs while at uni. A third of all new students are expected to receive the full amount of Maintenance Grant (£2,835)

Goodness, that hasn't changed much over the decades; my grant was something like £800/term back in 1985, and we didn't have to pay fees.

Running_Horse

Perhaps fees should be linked to percentage of lectures and seminars attended, and coursework handed in on time. At the moment, university seems a way for lazy middle class children to leave home gradually.

absolutebounder

studentphil wrote: »

I see, so all that shows is that univ. is mainly for middle class people and has nothing to with intelligence which is equal through all classes.

Define middle class

anewman

absolutebounder wrote: »

Define middle class

A middle class person is one who has a job someone without qualifications could never hope to get. Wage is not necessarily an indicator. I think there's an official list somewhere.

So yes, in my opinion defined by the type of the job you have as a result of the qualifications. If you have lots of qualifications, but a job anyone without those qualifications could get, you're still working class. I'm the latter type.

Carmina_Piranha_3

Sola wrote: »

Goodness, that hasn't changed much over the decades; my grant was something like £800/term back in 1985, and we didn't have to pay fees.

i'm pretty sure my grant was £800 a term in the 90s too - it covered the rent back then with a little spare for water bills and heating. food, clothes and bus fares came from wages or overdrafts/barclaycard/loans. a common topic of conversation in the uni common room was how we would be better off financially if we were on the dole because then you'd get housing benefit and free prescriptions, and why wasn't the dole done on a loan basis too.

i know the grant is pitiful but it's better than nothing i suppose. at least the loan repayments depend on your salary. you end up with a load of student debt but at least it's do-able if you think it's worthwhile. you can live on a small grant and loan while at uni without needing to take on too many hours of work.