Have I made a mistake contacting building control about planning ?

MeteredOut

Chief_of_Staffy said:

MeteredOut said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

Dang, too late then. Unless you can find the planning records there's no way around it. You can't market it as a three bed.

There is no legal definition of a bedroom. You could market your own house as having 5 beds and no living room if you wanted to (and were daft).

Whilst it's true you can call any room anything you like, if you market a room as a bedroom then the implication is that it is able to be lawfully used to sleep in. If a room doesn't have evidence of buildings regs / planning, etc. then whilst it might be perfectly safe, that legality cannot be established. The seller can of course do what they want, but if I were in that position I'd either market it as 2-bed or take some steps to establishing legality of the room prior to marketing as a 3-bed, such as a lawful development certificate or whatever might be appropriate.

Which law is applied to determine if someone can lawfully sleep in a room, and who establishes that legality?

I'd also market it as a 2 bed, or at least highlight that the 3rd bedroom is only accessible through the 2nd, but not because it does not have records from 50 years ago.

Chief_of_Staffy

Grumpy_chap said:
That seems to be making things very binary.

Not really, it's just a fact. Legality cannot be established in the absence of facts.

Grumpy_chap said:
Do you think this property has planning permission and / or complies with current building regulations?

https://www.royal.uk/royal-residences-buckingham-palace

Indeed. I should have said that if the OP was a Royal selling property from the Crown Estate on Rightmove then the historic law regarding building regs on Crown properties means he's home and dry.

Grumpy_chap

Chief_of_Staffy said:

Indeed. I should have said that if the OP was a Royal selling property from the Crown Estate on Rightmove then the historic law regarding building regs on Crown properties means he's home and dry.

You seem to have missed the point which was about the high number of older properties without planning permission and not compliant to current building regulations.
The number of bedrooms in such properties can also be very "fluid".


What legality are you trying to establish?
Simply not having planning permission or not having building regulations compliance certificate does not indicate illegality.

Section62

Chief_of_Staffy said:

Grumpy_chap said:
That seems to be making things very binary.

Not really, it's just a fact. Legality cannot be established in the absence of facts.

The law in England and Wales (and Scotland?) works the opposite way round.  Things are legal unless there is a law which says otherwise.

A room can be a bedroom unless there is some kind of legal restriction on using it as such.

Which is why old houses (and palaces) can have bedrooms, despite not having planning/BR approval for them to be so.

Chief_of_Staffy

Section62 said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

Grumpy_chap said:
That seems to be making things very binary.

Not really, it's just a fact. Legality cannot be established in the absence of facts.

The law in England and Wales (and Scotland?) works the opposite way round.  Things are legal unless there is a law which says otherwise.

There is a law that says otherwise. Building regulations legislation states that there must be evidence that the room, whatever it is, is safe to inhabit.

For example, a homeowner might convert a loft into a sleeping area without obtaining the necessary approvals or meeting building regulations. While the room may function as a bedroom, it cannot be legally called one. This can lead to issues with insurance, property valuation, and even fines from local authorities. 

https://lmb-lofts.com/why-cant-a-loft-room-be-called-a-bedroom/#:~:text=For example, a homeowner might convert a,valuation, and even fines from local authorities.

However, much like a garage conversion, the seller and their estate agents should not market a loft conversion without building regulations as a bedroom if it does not have a building regulations completion certificate.

https://www.samconveyancing.co.uk/news/conveyancing/buying-a-house-with-loft-conversion-without-building-regulations-5547#:~:text=However%2C%20much%20like%20a%20garage%20conversionthe%20seller,required%20to%20sign%20off%20a%20loft%20conversion.

Skint_yet_Again

So how do I go on with unoccupied home insurance? House has always been insured as a 3 bed 😕

user1977

Chief_of_Staffy said:

Section62 said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

Grumpy_chap said:
That seems to be making things very binary.

Not really, it's just a fact. Legality cannot be established in the absence of facts.

The law in England and Wales (and Scotland?) works the opposite way round.  Things are legal unless there is a law which says otherwise.

There is a law that says otherwise. Building regulations legislation states that there must be evidence that the room, whatever it is, is safe to inhabit.

Can you cite the legislation you're talking about? (neither of the web sites you've linked to are legal authorities)

Grumpy_chap

Skint_yet_Again said:

So how do I go on with unoccupied home insurance? House has always been insured as a 3 bed 😕

If this was me, I'd insure as a 3-bed and also market for sale as a 3-bed.

Section62

Chief_of_Staffy said:

Section62 said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

Grumpy_chap said:
That seems to be making things very binary.

Not really, it's just a fact. Legality cannot be established in the absence of facts.

The law in England and Wales (and Scotland?) works the opposite way round.  Things are legal unless there is a law which says otherwise.

There is a law that says otherwise. Building regulations legislation states that there must be evidence that the room, whatever it is, is safe to inhabit.
...

That would be the Building Act 1984, and it doesn't state that.

Chief_of_Staffy

Section62 said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

Section62 said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

Grumpy_chap said:
That seems to be making things very binary.

Not really, it's just a fact. Legality cannot be established in the absence of facts.

The law in England and Wales (and Scotland?) works the opposite way round.  Things are legal unless there is a law which says otherwise.

There is a law that says otherwise. Building regulations legislation states that there must be evidence that the room, whatever it is, is safe to inhabit.
...

That would be the Building Act 1984, and it doesn't state that.

It's literally the first sentence of the Act. Building regulations are to...

secur[e] the health, safety, welfare and convenience of persons in or about buildings and of others who may be affected by buildings or matters connected with buildings

If you're searching for the words 'there must be evidence that a room is safe to inhabit' you might be disappointed, but the entire statue can be summarised in a single aim - ensuring buildings and rooms are safe to for humans to inhabit.