Have I made a mistake contacting building control about planning ?

Section62

Tresinia511 said:

Chief_of_staffy , I'm not sure that EA is correct which is why she should get more than one opinion.  And every post on here is opinion not legal advice.  If it were me,  I would  engage a solicitor to be clear

Few solicitors have the in-depth knowledge of planning and building control matters to be able to offer meaningful advice, and those that do would charge at rates which would quickly eat into the margin between the value of a 2+ bedroom property and a 3-bed one.

Although a decent solicitor would likely just say that the EA is talking nonsense.

However, thankfully, we have moved from discussing bedroom laws which don't exist, on to identifying that the actual issue raised by the EA was "planning".  Thankfully, because that should make things easier for the OP - the circumstances where planning could be an issue for using a room as a bedroom are very limited and extremely unlikely to apply to a loft converted in the 1970's.

Nothing really has changed for the advice to the OP, either find an EA who knows what they are talking about and understands what the law requires (and what it doesn't), or else market the property as a 2-bed with a converted loft.

user1977

Tresinia511 said:

every post on here is opinion not legal advice.

None of it is legal advice but some of us do give legal advice in our day jobs...

NervyBuyer

OP - sorry to throw more into the mix but I didn't see this mentioned (I only skim read). I recently withdrew from a purchase with an undocumented loft bedroom with no planning or building regs, because the vendor had decided to do new work on the conversion during the marketing/sale to make the room satisfy fire safety standards (adding a door, window), but was not getting anything signed off by building control or even done under the Competent Person Scheme. Apparently if the room had just been left as it was (the original conversion date was unknown but probably decades old), this wouldn't have been a (paperwork) problem.
This situation was slightly different as they had sacrificed one of the two original bedrooms, so the property would have been a 1-bed without the loft room being legit. A 1-bed house for that price would have been a really awkward one for me to sell later, and the surveyor valued it significantly lower than the agreed purchase price. It would not have been such an issue for me on a 2 vs 3-bed house in the price range yours is.
I only mention it in case you want to consider/look into that if you are planning to do anything about the stud wall reconfiguration (i.e. it might be best just to leave it alone and market between the two values as they are not massively different anyway).

Chief_of_Staffy

I asked Claude. If you don't value AI responses that's fine, but it's more coherent than most of what I've read so far in this thread.

Q: A person wants to sell their home via estate agent in England. It has two bedrooms and a loft conversion that has been used as a bedroom since the 1970s, but has no planning or building control records. Would you expect an estate agent to market it as three bed, or two?

A: In England, estate agents would likely market this as a **two-bedroom** property, not three bedrooms.

Here's why:

**Legal and regulatory considerations:**

- Estate agents must comply with the Property Misdescriptions Act 1991 and Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008

- Marketing a room as a "bedroom" without proper building control approval could be considered misleading

- The lack of planning permission and building control records creates liability issues

**Industry practice:**

- Most reputable estate agents err on the side of caution with unconverted or improperly converted spaces

- They would typically describe it as "two bedrooms plus loft room/study" or "two bedrooms with additional room in loft"

- Some might use terms like "potential third bedroom" but would include disclaimers about the lack of proper approvals

**Practical implications:**

- Mortgage lenders often won't include improperly converted spaces in their valuations

- Buyers' solicitors will flag the missing approvals during conveyancing

- Building control issues could affect the sale or require retrospective applications

The estate agent would likely recommend either getting retrospective building control approval (if the conversion meets current standards) or marketing it honestly as additional living space rather than a formal bedroom. This protects both the seller and the agent from potential legal issues while still highlighting the extra space as a selling point.

MeteredOut

Do use a favour and point out to Claude that no building control was required in the 1970s, and let us know what it says.

Chief_of_Staffy

MeteredOut said:

Do use a favour and point out to Claude that no building control was required in the 1970s, and let us know what it says.

Why would I point out to Claude something that is not true?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1965/1373/pdfs/uksi_19651373_en.pdf

MeteredOut

Chief_of_Staffy said:

MeteredOut said:

Do use a favour and point out to Claude that no building control was required in the 1970s, and let us know what it says.

Why would I point out to Claude something that is not true?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1965/1373/pdfs/uksi_19651373_en.pdf

Because it shows the limitations of generative AI and how easy it is to manipulate it to give an answer that matches what it thinks you want it to say based on its limited context of the ask.

(ie. I was not making the point you assumed I was trying to make)

Chief_of_Staffy

MeteredOut said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

MeteredOut said:

Do use a favour and point out to Claude that no building control was required in the 1970s, and let us know what it says.

Why would I point out to Claude something that is not true?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1965/1373/pdfs/uksi_19651373_en.pdf

Because it shows the limitations of generative AI and how easy it is to manipulate it to give an answer that matches what it thinks you want it to say based on its limited context of the ask.

(ie. I was not making the point you assumed I was trying to make)

In what way do you think my original question, in bold, influenced the answer? If Claude was trying to please then advising me to market my house as a 2-bed instead of a 3-bed likely isn't the best way to go about it.

The same question, this time to Google DD AI summarised from 100+ websites.

An estate agent in England would be expected to market the property as a two-bedroom home with a loft room, not as a three-bedroom property. 

This is because the loft conversion lacks the required building control and planning records to be legally classified and marketed as a habitable bedroom. The agent would likely describe it as a "loft conversion" or "attic room" to avoid misrepresentation and potential legal and financial issues. 

Reasons for marketing as a two-bedroom home

Legal requirement for building control: For a loft to be a legal bedroom, it must comply with building regulations for structural integrity, fire safety, and escape routes. The absence of a completion certificate or sign-off means it cannot be officially classed as a bedroom for marketing purposes.

Misrepresentation risks: Marketing the space as a third bedroom when it is not approved is considered misrepresentation under the Consumer Protection Regulations. This can lead to serious legal and financial repercussions for the seller and the estate agent.

Mortgage complications: A buyer's mortgage lender will conduct a valuation and will likely not value the unapproved space as a bedroom. If the property was marketed as a three-bed, the lender may withdraw the offer or demand a revaluation, leading to the sale falling through.

Conveyancing and insurance issues: A buyer's solicitor will discover the lack of building control approval during legal enquiries. This could lead to a request for a price reduction, a certificate of regularisation, or an indemnity insurance policy, which may not be possible or effective if the council is already aware of the unapproved work. 

How the space would be described

Given the lack of official records, the agent would use neutral language to describe the space in the property particulars. Examples include: 

"Two-bedroom house with a loft conversion"

"Loft room" or "attic room"

"Boarded and insulated loft space"

"Potential third bedroom, subject to building regulations" 

What the seller can do

To sell the property with minimal friction, the owner has a few options:

Retrospective approval (Regularisation): The most comprehensive solution is to apply for retrospective building control approval. A building control surveyor will inspect the work and outline what needs to be changed to bring it up to modern standards. This process can be costly but ensures the space is safe and can then be officially marketed as a bedroom.

Indemnity insurance: A buyer may accept an indemnity insurance policy, paid for by the seller, that protects against the council taking future enforcement action. However, this does not certify the work's safety and may not satisfy all mortgage lenders.

Target cash buyers: Properties with unapproved works are often more attractive to cash buyers, who are not reliant on mortgage valuations and may be willing to accept the property "as is" with a price adjustment. 

jimbog

Many large Victorian homes have attic bedrooms (servant quarters). Can these be classed as bedrooms?

Section62

Chief_of_Staffy said:

MeteredOut said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

MeteredOut said:

Do use a favour and point out to Claude that no building control was required in the 1970s, and let us know what it says.

Why would I point out to Claude something that is not true?

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1965/1373/pdfs/uksi_19651373_en.pdf

Because it shows the limitations of generative AI and how easy it is to manipulate it to give an answer that matches what it thinks you want it to say based on its limited context of the ask.

(ie. I was not making the point you assumed I was trying to make)

In what way do you think my original question, in bold, influenced the answer? If Claude was trying to please then advising me to market my house as a 2-bed instead of a 3-bed likely isn't the best way to go about it.

The same question, this time to Google DD AI summarised from 100+ websites.

An estate agent in England would be expected to market the property as a two-bedroom home with a loft room, not as a three-bedroom property. 

This is because the loft conversion lacks the required building control and planning records to be legally classified and marketed as a habitable bedroom. The agent would likely describe it as a "loft conversion" or "attic room" to avoid misrepresentation and potential legal and financial issues. 

Reasons for marketing as a two-bedroom home

Legal requirement for building control: For a loft to be a legal bedroom, it must comply with building regulations for structural integrity, fire safety, and escape routes. The absence of a completion certificate or sign-off means it cannot be officially classed as a bedroom for marketing purposes.

...

 

Summarising 100+ websites sounds impressive, but not when you bear in mind the maxim "Garbage in, garbage out".  If a proportion of the 100+ websites contain wrong or misleading information then the answer is likely to be wrong as well.

Way back in this thread user1977 asked "Can you cite the legislation you're talking about?", and didn't seem to get an answer.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81626863/#Comment_81626863

So if AI is being put forward as the truth, then perhaps you can ask the AI of your choice to cite the specific legislation giving rise to the AI-made claims in bold above - i.e.

1) What law means a bedroom might be "legally classified" as such?

2) What law defines "a legal bedroom"?

3) What law gives rise to a room being "officially classed as a bedroom"?