Have I made a mistake contacting building control about planning ?

user1977

Skint_yet_Again said:

user1977 said:

Skint_yet_Again said:

The estate agent has said they cannot market as a 3 bed without evidence of planning.

Do you have planning permission for the original construction of the house?

No 

So why is the estate agent comfortable calling it a house at all...

Seriously, you don't need to produce consents for work done half a century ago. Yes, it's possible the loft conversion won't meet today's building regulations - but it doesn't need to. And the rest of the house won't meet today's regs either. It is what it is.

Chief_of_Staffy

You might find an EA to market it as 3 bed, but I personally would disclose the planning issue to them and let them decide how to market it. The thing is, now you've discovered the issue, and made it known you've discovered it, not declaring it means you could be held liable for withholding material information if, for example, the buyer finds out that their purchase is worth far less than what they paid for it and that EA No. 1 refused to market the property as 3-bed on precisely that basis. How big a risk that is I have no idea.

Beeblebr0x

My take is if someone is happy to buy 'as is' then I don't see what the problem is.  Also, don't volunteer any information; it's incumbent on the buyer to do due diligence. 

eddddy

Chief_of_Staffy said:

You might find an EA to market it as 3 bed, but I personally would disclose the planning issue to them and let them decide how to market it. The thing is, now you've discovered the issue, and made it known you've discovered it, not declaring it means you could be held liable for withholding material information if, for example, the buyer finds out that their purchase is worth far less than what they paid for it and that EA No. 1 refused to market the property as 3-bed on precisely that basis. How big a risk that is I have no idea.

Just to clarify - your reference to "withholding material information" sounds like a reference to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations.

Those regulations don't apply to private homeowners who sell their house. They apply to traders who sell houses to consumers as part of their business.

So that would mean Estate Agents, Developers, etc.


So if anyone was found liable to pay compensation for "withholding material information", it would be the estate agent, and not the OP / seller.

ExEstateAgent

Is the 'bedroom' actually able to be classed as a bedroom under the regs, i.e. is there an opening window, does it have a door to separate it from the room below? Or is it just a boarded loft space with a bed, accessed by a ladder? 

I've never heard of an EA ask about planning docs for normal alterations to a property, that's left to solicitors as part of the conveyancing process. 

Chief_of_Staffy

eddddy said:

Chief_of_Staffy said:

You might find an EA to market it as 3 bed, but I personally would disclose the planning issue to them and let them decide how to market it. The thing is, now you've discovered the issue, and made it known you've discovered it, not declaring it means you could be held liable for withholding material information if, for example, the buyer finds out that their purchase is worth far less than what they paid for it and that EA No. 1 refused to market the property as 3-bed on precisely that basis. How big a risk that is I have no idea.

Just to clarify - your reference to "withholding material information" sounds like a reference to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations.

Those regulations don't apply to private homeowners who sell their house. They apply to traders who sell houses to consumers as part of their business.

So that would mean Estate Agents, Developers, etc.


So if anyone was found liable to pay compensation for "withholding material information", it would be the estate agent, and not the OP / seller.

I wasn't referring to that, although my terminology likely isn't specific. I was talking about repercussions due to fraudulent misrepresentation by omission, withholding information on the TA6, etc.

Skint_yet_Again

ExEstateAgent said:

Is the 'bedroom' actually able to be classed as a bedroom under the regs, i.e. is there an opening window, does it have a door to separate it from the room below? Or is it just a boarded loft space with a bed, accessed by a ladder? 

I've never heard of an EA ask about planning docs for normal alterations to a property, that's left to solicitors as part of the conveyancing process. 

The conversion has a full staircase and dormer with opening windows and a door at the bottom of the stairs accessed through the 2nd bedroom. There is the option to put up a partition wall in the 2nd bedroom so you do not walk “through” it but as we were 3 girls it was never an issue. It was built over 50 years ago and dad always said it had full permission & the man from the council came out to inspect and sign off. 

So are we saying 
1.  I have not irrevocably damaged a sale although I have spoken to planning/ building control 
2. I should not book the archive and look for plans ? (Part of me wants to know and the other part is now scared to death of it not being on there)

Thanks for all your comments 

Section62

Skint_yet_Again said:

The conversion has a full staircase and dormer with opening windows and a door at the bottom of the stairs accessed through the 2nd bedroom. There is the option to put up a partition wall in the 2nd bedroom so you do not walk “through” it but as we were 3 girls it was never an issue. It was built over 50 years ago and dad always said it had full permission & the man from the council came out to inspect and sign off. 

...

It might be the BiB making the EA nervous about marketing the property as a 3-bed.

From the building regs perspective, it may not be compliant if the extra bedroom is on the second floor and you have to pass through another room to get to the staircase leading to the door you'd use to exit the building in case of fire  Under the current standards the second floor room would need a protected way to the exit door, or else an alternative means of exit (e.g. a fire escape).  I'm not 100% sure, and there were variations in what applied in the 1970's, but I think there's a fair chance it was probably non-compliant when built.

So why not market as a 2-bed, and make it clear you are looking for the upper end of the valuation range from a buyer who can see the potential use as a 3-bed?

MysteryMe

Yeah, only being able to access a bedroom from another bedroom is going to put people off treating it as a standard 3 bed house, not the lack of paperwork.

Skint_yet_Again

There is space to put in a stud wall and lose part of the second bedroom and a fire door could be installed. (more building regs??) At the moment the second bedroom is a large double, it used to be a shared bedroom with twin beds. 

The loft room has a 4ft wide (“occasional”?) double bed with fitted wardrobes and space to walk around the bed apart from the head of the bed is where it starts to curve into the eaves. (The EA said “Oh it is a proper room”)

You could still get a double bed in the second bedroom, with space to walk around the bed if a stud wall was installed. There is plenty of head height going up the stairs to the loft and when up in the loft due to the dormer. 

However I’m not thinking of doing these things before sale, unless you think it’s worth doing? I do understand what you are saying about walking through a bedroom. 

It’s hard to know what to do for the best, especially when it’s where you grew up. I’m trying to be objective. Similar 2 bed properties (no loft room) sold for £155,000 also needing modernisation. 3 bed (3rd bedroom in loft) 170k may have had current planning. 

I will see what 2 more EA’s have to say but maybe £160,000 looking to get £155,000 is the way forward with no paperwork and a loft room built in the 70’s.