UKCPM PCN Query - Do i even bother with appeal to them/IAS?

Flem_Candango

LoneStarState said:

I would personally say it is "worth" the IAS appeal.  Go in expecting to lose however.  I only say I'd recommend as I think it's worth doing a bit more by experienced posters to expose the nonsense "adjudications" by "legally trained solicitors/barristers" while we can as I still think statutory regulation will continue to be strung out and progress at a glacial pace.  Ultimately with an aim to complaining to the CTSI and DVLA if the IAS regurgitate the push button dismissal.  

Everything about those Google street view images highlights woeful lack of any signage indicating entry onto private land, any of the core terms and no indication of the surveillance as well.  Can put them to strict proof of signage presence and locations on a site map etc.

Plus usual other points regarding landowner authority and possibly any POFA failures etc.

What is the contravention on your PCN?  Could you share a redacted copy of it?

Thanks for your input, have attached wording below:

Coupon-mad

Vehicle not registered.

And what does the sign there say?

Flem_Candango

Coupon-mad said:

Vehicle not registered.

And what does the sign there say?

I'm guessing that as there is a Gym etc. there, members of that (as one example) are registered to be able to park, hence the not registered. 

I would have to go back there to see what the sign says which I will try and do over the weekend, its far too small to read on google images.

Flem_Candango

Castle said:

Here's an example of a ticket being cancelled:-
Atlip Centre Wembly Car Parking ticket - getting it cancelled — MoneySavingExpert Forum

Thanks, i did see that and contacted the referenced company asking them to intervene. I got a response from Rivenhall PM Ltd who said they manage it instead, so must have changed, but was forwarded on by the company referenced in that post.

I dont hold out much hope though, as they replied back "I have passed on your email to CPM the parking company and will come back to you once I receive a reply".

I dont anticipate simply forwarding my email on will do much good, but we shall see.

Coupon-mad

Flem_Candango said:

Coupon-mad said:

Vehicle not registered.

And what does the sign there say?

I'm guessing that as there is a Gym etc. there, members of that (as one example) are registered to be able to park, hence the not registered. 

I would have to go back there to see what the sign says which I will try and do over the weekend, its far too small to read on google images.

Yep you will need to go and take photos including of the view as you enter and then where you pulled over. And a close up of the t&cs sign on a wall. We need to read the terms.

Gr1pr

I doubt that passing on your email to UK CPM is what you asked them to do 

They should be fixing the road surface ( and pavements  ) and various markings, especially the yellow lines, adding no parking or no waiting signs, improving the entrance signs at the transition point etc

It should be as obvious as Lord Dennings red hand rule 

Le_Kirk

Flem_Candango said:

Le_Kirk said:

Flem_Candango said:

I think on further investigation you are probably right, it looks like it is a private road... but how can this be deemed anything other than a borderline criminal activity?

Where did you get the idea that it was a criminal activity?  It is a parking event and UKCPM will chase you via the civil court!

I was being hyperbolic, and also suffixed it with 'borderline' I completely understand (as far as they're concerned) its a civil matter.

My point was to suggest what they are doing is borderline criminal, obviously its not - hence the word borderline. 

Coupon-mad said:

Actually, I'm with you.

Covert surveillance is illegal under the DPA 2018. Also in breach of the Surveillance Camera Code of Practice. There was no way you knew you were being filmed or could have seen that high up camera.

I thought you were stating that what you did was borderline criminal but now you explain it and I reread it, it makes sense to me!  See, write it on a piece of paper wrapped around a brick and hit me on the head with it often enough and I get the point!

Flem_Candango

By way of update on this, the land management company unsurprisingly came back and said, after forwarding your email on UKCPM have advised that i follow their appeals process.

I pushed back on this and said that isn't what i was asking as i could just do that myself,  i was asking the land owner to review the circumstances and request it be cancelled - so can you please do this for me.

They have now come back with the following:

Hi xxx

 

We have discussed this further with CPM who have advised that the vehicle was parked on double yellow lines in front of the sign. The site has been independently audited recently. CPM have advised that should you wish to appeal this PCN you should use the procedure set out within the PCN.

Yes, I was parked on double yellow lines, I'm not denying that, but surely if they are saying i was parked in front of the sign then they are acknowledging i didn't actually enter it? And, how would it help if my car was registered on their ANPR system (if say i was a member of the Gym there) if it is to do with parking on the yellow lines?

Still havent had a chance to go and photograph the sign, so i appreciate i really need to do that soon + find out where the exact demarcation point is on the road. 

Coupon-mad

Flem_Candango said:

By way of update on this, the land management company unsurprisingly came back and said, after forwarding your email on UKCPM have advised that i follow their appeals process.

I pushed back on this and said that isn't what i was asking as i could just do that myself,  i was asking the land owner to review the circumstances and request it be cancelled - so can you please do this for me.

They have now come back with the following:

Hi xxx

 

We have discussed this further with CPM who have advised that the vehicle was parked on double yellow lines in front of the sign. The site has been independently audited recently. CPM have advised that should you wish to appeal this PCN you should use the procedure set out within the PCN.

Yes, I was parked on double yellow lines, I'm not denying that, but surely if they are saying i was parked in front of the sign then they are acknowledging i didn't actually enter it? And, how would it help if my car was registered on their ANPR system (if say i was a member of the Gym there) if it is to do with parking on the yellow lines?

Still havent had a chance to go and photograph the sign, so i appreciate i really need to do that soon + find out where the exact demarcation point is on the road. 

Cars can stop on double yellows. Lots of people wrongly think they mean 'no stopping' but of course they don't!

Just ignore the £170 threatograms shown in pictures in post 4 of the NEWBIES thread. Tell UKCPM if you move house.

For more advice in bitesize chunks, read the official MSE Guide to fighting parking tickets that's linked at the top of this page. Be confident. And.. 

This month, we need you:

PLEASE bookmark this thread below and do the government's Public Consultation if you haven't done it yet.

Their proposals are wrong. We must stop them.

See this thread: -

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6617396/parking-code-of-practice-consultation-8-weeks-from-11th-july-2025/p1

We need every poster to come back & complete this vital Consultation before the deadline! Just 2 weeks left but please don't rush it. You can do some then save it and come back to it as you have time.

rainbird1

I did get a similar ticket when I went to enjoy an ice-cream at a parlour on the Ealing road, on a hot evening 10 PM in the night.

Points:

1) The road always looked public to me and now I have got a PCN.

2) The Atlip Road is private road, which appears to be public road, no private road board and yellow lines on one side, no lines on other side pattern generally found on public road.

3) What they describe as "controlled land" consist a section of the road and the car park as shown in the attached image. The PCN is worded cunningly as "private land at Atlip Center Wembley".

4) The new owner-manager is www rivenhall.london they don't seem to be entertaining.

5) I am in the process of appealing at IAS stage and have been bouncing the argument with the operators.

6) My lines of arguments are:

  a. "private road which appears public" => confusion.
  b. "controlled land = road + car park" without clear delamination is violation of Clause 3.2 of Single Code of practice but apparently non binding since Jan 2022.
  c.  no contract at point B since, all the signage uses the work "car park" which does not automatically mean to include "the road" in any reasonable drivers mind.

HTH