Group Nexus / CP Plus Ltd PCN ...already appealed

piggypower

Coupon-mad said:

piggypower said:

I am assuming there must be landowner authority, I cant see a reason why there would not be. 

There always is. That's not the point.

Hmm, sorry, maybe I missed it then, Gr1pr said about "no landowner authority" ... but you are saying there always is... 
What is the point!?

piggypower

Castle said:

piggypower said:

I guess what they want, is how I feel, just pay the £60 and then be done with all this faff. 

I'll be honest, looking at Google street view, the signs are large and placed at the entrance. However at night, I've no idea. I never remember seeing them or I would have done something about it I expect! I was tired and just trying to ensure I was headed towards the car park, not the HGV park. There certainly isnt any lights attached to the signs to illuminate them by the looks of google street view. 

I am assuming there must be landowner authority, I cant see a reason why there would not be. 

They may be readable in daylight but what about at 2.18am.

well indeed, I have no idea tbh and without going there on the same date next year at 2:18am, I will struggle to prove otherwise I guess

piggypower

Looking at this image taken from google street view... I am going to presume I was, as 2:18am, focused on the road signs and the street like was also likely not helping, causing shadows over the parking sign

piggypower

asked chat GPT to show what it may have looked like at 2:18am...


 to 

Nellymoser

Easy to see how you missed them.

piggypower said:

Coupon-mad said:

piggypower said:

I am assuming there must be landowner authority, I cant see a reason why there would not be. 

There always is. That's not the point.

Hmm, sorry, maybe I missed it then, Gr1pr said about "no landowner authority" ... but you are saying there always is... 
What is the point!?

You assume they have this but Nexus haven't provided you with any proof they do.
Have a read of some posts in the POPLA Decisions Announcement thread it may help you see the point.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/81517566/#Comment_81517566

Gr1pr

piggypower said:

Coupon-mad said:

piggypower said:

I am assuming there must be landowner authority, I cant see a reason why there would not be. 

There always is. That's not the point.

Hmm, sorry, maybe I missed it then, Gr1pr said about "no landowner authority" ... but you are saying there always is... 
What is the point!?

By bringing it up, you put them to strict proof that they have it, an unredacted contract that is current and what authorities it gives,  so you put that doubt into the appeal or court case,  meaning that they have to prove that they have a valid current contract, that it meets the criteria they are imposing on the signs and on the NTK PCN letter etc

Many private parking companies dont like producing unredacted contracts, and when they do there are often flaws in them, like wordings,  clauses,  expired periods,  not signed or witnessed by the correct people. 

If they have it and produced it and it's all in order then the assumption would be correct,  but it's not fact until proven

Many appeals and cases are won on landowner authority and signage,  typically when there are issues,  which happens a lot, or the claimant discontinues for various reasons,  especially when they are found out 

So the point is that you and we assume that there are flaws in the case,  putting them to strict proof that they have covered every base, every possible weakness has been addressed,  no possible get out of jail free card

We read thousands of cases and reports and so we see numerous flaws, have a read through the discontinuations thread by Umkomaas,  have a read through the popla decisions thread, have a read of the blog on the contestor legal website   ( then tell us that all these cases are watertight and the defendant lost  )

Coupon-mad

Operators often offer no contest at POPLA if you use lots of points that cause them work. And some never disclose their landowner agreement so appellants who raise it, win.

piggypower

so after I submitted quite substantial evidence and a claim with POPLA based on all the stuff on here...
 CP-Plus have submitted their evidence onto the POPLA system for me to view.

Its very very extensive. dozens of pages. 

it includes two witness statements from Moto in 2023 stating the landowner/leaseholder authority given to CP Plus. 

I am starting to feel like it wasnt worth it and I should have just paid the reduced fine. 

They have dozens of close up pics of the signage (which is extensive at this site) but all taken around 7pm, with a clear blue sky (sun starting to set) so no need for additional lighting to see the signs.
CP Plus claim I had my headlights on, so I could see them.

I did request specific evidence of these signs lit at the time of the PCN... but they have not done this. 
Headlights (dipped of course) would not reach high enough for the entry signs to be seen clearly. 

I did not enter this carpark with the intent to avoid paying car parking. at the time, as mentioned, we were exhausted and I said I needed to nap or we'd have a crash basically. Once awaking from what became a deep sleep, I didnt think to walk round looking at signs and just got back on the road. 

It has become the most stressful and expensive nap of my life

Coupon-mad

No it hasn't become expensive as you'll never have to pay this. POPLA doesn't matter but give it a go. Nobody pays when they lose.

Photos...taken around 7pm, with a clear blue sky (sun starting to set) so no need for additional lighting to see the signs. Headlights (dipped of course) would not reach high enough for the entry signs to be seen clearly.

Which is what you say in your POPLA Comments. Plus anything else you spot about the signs or their other evidence.

e.g. is the £100 in very large bold font compared to the rest of the wording?

...show us the landowner statements.

It is normal to see 50 or more pages in a POPLA response. They haven't written all that specially to oppose you; it's a template with odd sentences tweaked then a batch of pics they prepared earlier for that site.

1505grandad

If the some/all photos they have used as evidence are not date and time stamped relevant to the parking event  -  state that too.