UKCPS - 7 fines for the building I live in because the landlord never gave me a permit

greycats2025

UKCPS have issued 7 fines in total against me for parking in the car park underneath the flat that I rent. I moved in around March and in around June I noticed signs appearing stating that you needed a permit to park there. When I moved in, the landlord did not have any communication with me or do 'handover' with me. This was all done with the flatmate who lived there before me. He gave me the fob for the car park gate and told me which number to park in. When I noticed the permit signs, I assumed that these were targeted to those who worked nearby and used the car park for that, rather than the residents of the building. I also assumed that the landlord or building management would inform me if it concerned me. 

In June, I then received 4 parking fines from UKCPS for failing to display a permit. These were sent to my family address which is where I have my mail sent as there is no way to securely receive mail at my flat (it's all just thrown at the bottom of the lift for the residents to root through). 

I immediately contacted my landlord about this who said that he "didn't know" because he "doesn't live there", but then later recalled that there was a pass and asked me to chase the previous tenant for this! My current flatmate never used the car park so was none the wiser to this and the landlord informed me that he did not do any inventory check when the previous tenant moved out so had forgotten about the pass. 

It took me 3 weeks of continuously chasing the landlord for him to order a new permit for me. During this time he did nothing but ask for the previous tenant to be chased for it and blame my flatmate for not thinking about this. In the meantime, I received 3 more fines bringing me to a total of 7 fines of £700 total. As soon as I received the pass, I submitted my appeals explaining the situation, providing my landlord's details and attaching a photo of the permit as evidence.

I have now heard that these appeals have all been refused but have each been mitigated to £20 if paid within the next 2 weeks. I work in a medium-sized law firm and spoke to someone here about it. I was given friendly advice to ask if the landlord would be willing to pay to settle these. He has read my message but not responded. I suspect he will say no. 

I am just wondering what next steps I can consider? Having any sort of action taken against me / CCJ has the potential to affect my legal career before it even begins which I am anxious to avoid. I do not believe I should be held financially responsible for my landlord's oversight, but I am also cautious that I do not want to aggravate him and tarnish our landlord/tenant relationship. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Umkomaas

If you have a legal career, surely you understand the circumstances under which a CCJ can have an affect? 

How old are the seven parking charges?

Gr1pr

Also, If you have a legal career,  then you would know that they are not fines,  but invoices for the alleged breach of the parking contract on that private property 

Most people I know that work in legal companies know that you cannot get a CCJ unless you have an unpaid judgment,  meaning unpaid within the typical month allowed as a grace period 

Ergo, if you lost in court,  you pay it in full ASAP,  to expunge the judgment 

CCJs are explained in the newbies sticky thread in announcements near the top of the forum 

You cannot just get a CCJ, as long as they have the correct address for the service of papers,  because there is a full court claim process that could take a year

James_Poisson

".....in around June I noticed signs appearing stating that you needed a permit to park there"

You cannot be bound by a contract you were not informed of or which was not conveyed by signs on the site, but when they did you should have been given adequate time to comply.

3.4. Material changes – notices

Where there is any material change to any pre-existing terms and conditions that would not
be immediately apparent to a driver entering controlled land that is or has been open for
public parking, the parking operator must place additional (temporary) notices at the site
entrance for a period of not less than 4 months from the date of the change making it clear
that new terms and conditions/charges apply, such that regular visitors who might be

familiar with the old terms do not inadvertently incur parking charges.

https://www.britishparking.co.uk/write/Documents/AOS/Sector Code Templates/sectorsingleCodeofPracticeVersion1.1130225.pdf

Though in addition to the above it also depends on the lease agreement.

Car1980

Ask your landlord (or another owner-occupier via a poster in the lift or something) to find out what it says in the lease about parking.

Usually the lease grants rights over the land, the parking company have no authority and the management company have just brought them on site (sometimes receiving a kickback) citing "complaints about parking".

prowla

So, you've moved into the flat and the landlord didn't give you the required parking permits as pat of handover and then dragged their feet in resolving it.

You work at a legal firm and the advice given there was to ask the landlord if they'd pay.

Both of those are pretty lame responses.

The advice from the legal firm should at a minimum have been to check your tenancy agreement to see what it says and what you signed up to.

The parking companies will always tend to reject appeals, but their (further) "reduced" offer can be an indicator that they may feel they are on shaky ground.

As has been explained, you can only get a CCJ if you have lost a court case and not paid.

This forum has much documentation and cases where people have contested these things and won.

In addidion to all of the advice, I'd question whether having been given the fob to the car park gate implicitly validated your right of entry and use thereof.

You could treat this as an interesting legal exercise to undertake.

Alternatively you could just pay up the requested amount (I'll give you my details if you want to give me some money too!).

Le_Kirk

greycats2025 said:

In June, I then received 4 parking fines from UKCPS for failing to display a permit. These were sent to my family address which is where I have my mail sent as there is no way to securely receive mail at my flat (it's all just thrown at the bottom of the lift for the residents to root through). 

Complain to Royal Mail, this is totally unacceptable - someone has paid (an inordinate amount) for a stamp for a letter to be delivered to your address not thrown on the floor!  If there is a management company, get them to install some secure pigeon holes with the backing of your landlord.

greycats2025

Umkomaas said:

If you have a legal career, surely you understand the circumstances under which a CCJ can have an affect? 

How old are the seven parking charges?

I do, however I do not work in litigation. 

The parking charges span from over June and July but were appealed within the time limit. 

Gr1pr

greycats2025 said:

Umkomaas said:

If you have a legal career, surely you understand the circumstances under which a CCJ can have an affect? 

How old are the seven parking charges?

I do, however I do not work in litigation. 

The parking charges span from over June and July but were appealed within the time limit. 

There are people in the firm who do, so you should expect better advice from them as regards litigation etc, they usually have to do stints in different departments due to the paralegal training contracts 

Plus there's google search 

But the newbies sticky thread in announcements is specially written for newbies like yourself 

Just stick to the basics,  not conjecture,  not paranoia about CCJs   ( widely misunderstood by the thousands of newbies who come here )

Coupon-mad

greycats2025 said:

Umkomaas said:

If you have a legal career, surely you understand the circumstances under which a CCJ can have an affect? 

How old are the seven parking charges?

I do, however I do not work in litigation. 

Appeal was pointless. Ignore UKCPS or send them a solicitor's letter to cease and desist.

I think you know that it is impossible to just get a CCJ (even if you lose at a hearing, you'd just pay - LESS THAN THE CLAIM - and no CCJ remains).

But you'd likely win because the terms were void for impossibility (void because you had no permit - see VCS v Carr at the Court of Appeal this year, and also a first level appeal case: PACE v Lengyel) and UKCPS know you are a resident with prior rights & easements.

greycats2025

Coupon-mad said:

greycats2025 said:

Umkomaas said:

If you have a legal career, surely you understand the circumstances under which a CCJ can have an affect? 

How old are the seven parking charges?

I do, however I do not work in litigation. 

Appeal was pointless. Ignore UKCPS or send them a solicitor's letter to cease and desist.

I think you know that it is impossible to just get a CCJ (even if you lose at a hearing, you'd just pay - LESS THAN THE CLAIM - and no CCJ remains).

But you'd likely win because the terms were void for impossibility (void because you had no permit - see VCS v Carr at the Court of Appeal this year, and also a first level appeal case: PACE v Lengyel) and UKCPS know you are a resident with prior rights & easements.

Thank you! I think I was a bit too vague regarding my initial comment about getting a CCJ from what others have commented. I know these aren't just handed out but it doesn't mean that court proceedings and the CCJ aren't something I am worried about. 

Is there anything else I can do in the meantime? I would rather not just wait around and hope that proceedings aren't issued against me but I do understand that other than paying, this may be my only option!