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Putting up new fence....where there isnt one between neighbours

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Ok, so this is another fence post  :D

Bit of info for this one. Our property lines are basically the red bit on title plan image:

The lines on below images are not exact, but show roughly what is ours according to deeds. 

We are having work done to the house and my neighbours (well one of the household members) is getting a bit funny about the grass area upfront + parking (+noise, but we will ignore that for now. Yes she thinks plasterers are way too noisy to give you gauge on that though lol) 

  

As pics above, we have used some of the area (on the left side of marker lines) for the skip and to hold some materials. I did put down ply, but i know theres a few sink spots in areas and i will need to repair/re-seed to reverse the damage done. The builders have also been prone to part-park a bit on the grass too which neighbour doesnt like (again,still within our boundary area)

Parking on occasion has also become a bit of a problem too, as we often have a few vehicles over and they do sometimes block/partly block the access out of the shared drive entrance. It has been the case of nextdoor knocking/ringing doorbell and someone being straight out to move it. Aware thats not ideal and soley on us...but rarely any offstreet parking outside and it only takes a min to get ressolved (its also not like this is new as we have been neighbours for a while and we have often in past had to do this for one another, but this is bit more frequent now due to works), neighbour doesnt help as also intentially parking further back to be petty, which technically crosses over 'our' boundary line, but letting that slide for now as dont want to ruffle feathers where poss. Due to weird plot, technically their 'full width' driveway starts about half way from fork point.

We typically maintain the entire lawn anyway, but since works started and skips been introduced..the neighbour seems to want to cut the grass. I have advised we wont be doing it until all cleared again (they even asked if we could move the skip to allow it be mowed lol) and I get looks a bit messy at moe wih mix of overgrown/patchy/dead grass + skip/materials...but thats kind of on us and it should not really be of concern as within 'our' garden, regardless if they have to have a front row seat looking at it. 

Keeping things polite, but also fed up with upteen messages about state of the grass and trades people getting wheels on it or about the skip guy driving on it to pick up/unload. I've said i'll sort as politely as can when the works complete, but they just seem to keep persuing the matter about it.

Anyway thats the gist of where we are moe....back to the fence question!

One of the last bits of work we want to do is put a low level fence up along the boundary upfront (along yellow/black line bit shown/grass area only/wont be taking it to the concrete driveway part) and thereafter along our side of it create another run of flower bedding so we basically end up with another strip that continues to join up to our existing ones (basically end up having it all the way round our grass). 

Deeds confirm the boundary line is ours and makes mention of...

''erect and thereafter maintain a good and sufficient close boarded boundary fence not less than five feet in height along the boundary of the land marked "T" on the plan''

...but we have never had a fence up along front before and neither have the previous owners - Is it a problem to put one up now? the rear garden seperating us is not an issue as always had a fence up, which again confirms to plot drawings and is ours too.  

Theres nothing on deeds about right of way mentioned and only paragraph about easements is this one (same on both our deeds): 

''The Purchaser shall not by reason of these presents acquire any right or easement of light air or otherwise which would interfere with the unrestricted user of any adjoining land belonging to the Vendor or his predecessors or successors in title and nothing in these presents shall be construed to impose any restriction whatsoever upon the user of the adjoining land of the Vendor or his predecessors or successors in title or to create a building scheme''

The title plan doesnt show it, but both plots have a rear extensions too. Our back garden + side is mainly concrete with garage + few bedding runs...Theirs has a nicer bit of green space, has a small lawn + bedding runs, then garage + concrete drive along the side. 

The neighbour obviosuly doesnt want a front fence up as makes their frontage look smaller, but i'd like to seperate it if possible to gain the gardening space make it our own without looking 'shared'.

End of essay! Thanks in advance for thoughts on this one
«13

Comments

  • Boohoo
    Boohoo Posts: 1,188 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    jinsta said:
    Ok, so this is another fence post  :D

    Bit of info for this one. Our property lines are basically the red bit on title plan image:

    The lines on below images are not exact, but show roughly what is ours according to deeds. 

    We are having work done to the house and my neighbours (well one of the household members) is getting a bit funny about the grass area upfront + parking (+noise, but we will ignore that for now. Yes she thinks plasterers are way too noisy to give you gauge on that though lol) 

      

    As pics above, we have used some of the area (on the left side of marker lines) for the skip and to hold some materials. I did put down ply, but i know theres a few sink spots in areas and i will need to repair/re-seed to reverse the damage done. The builders have also been prone to part-park a bit on the grass too which neighbour doesnt like (again,still within our boundary area)

    Parking on occasion has also become a bit of a problem too, as we often have a few vehicles over and they do sometimes block/partly block the access out of the shared drive entrance. It has been the case of nextdoor knocking/ringing doorbell and someone being straight out to move it. Aware thats not ideal and soley on us...but rarely any offstreet parking outside and it only takes a min to get ressolved (its also not like this is new as we have been neighbours for a while and we have often in past had to do this for one another, but this is bit more frequent now due to works), neighbour doesnt help as also intentially parking further back to be petty, which technically crosses over 'our' boundary line, but letting that slide for now as dont want to ruffle feathers where poss. Due to weird plot, technically their 'full width' driveway starts about half way from fork point.

    We typically maintain the entire lawn anyway, but since works started and skips been introduced..the neighbour seems to want to cut the grass. I have advised we wont be doing it until all cleared again (they even asked if we could move the skip to allow it be mowed lol) and I get looks a bit messy at moe wih mix of overgrown/patchy/dead grass + skip/materials...but thats kind of on us and it should not really be of concern as within 'our' garden, regardless if they have to have a front row seat looking at it. 

    Keeping things polite, but also fed up with upteen messages about state of the grass and trades people getting wheels on it or about the skip guy driving on it to pick up/unload. I've said i'll sort as politely as can when the works complete, but they just seem to keep persuing the matter about it.

    Anyway thats the gist of where we are moe....back to the fence question!

    One of the last bits of work we want to do is put a low level fence up along the boundary upfront (along yellow/black line bit shown/grass area only/wont be taking it to the concrete driveway part) and thereafter along our side of it create another run of flower bedding so we basically end up with another strip that continues to join up to our existing ones (basically end up having it all the way round our grass). 

    Deeds confirm the boundary line is ours and makes mention of...

    ''erect and thereafter maintain a good and sufficient close boarded boundary fence not less than five feet in height along the boundary of the land marked "T" on the plan''

    ...but we have never had a fence up along front before and neither have the previous owners - Is it a problem to put one up now? the rear garden seperating us is not an issue as always had a fence up, which again confirms to plot drawings and is ours too.  

    Theres nothing on deeds about right of way mentioned and only paragraph about easements is this one (same on both our deeds): 

    ''The Purchaser shall not by reason of these presents acquire any right or easement of light air or otherwise which would interfere with the unrestricted user of any adjoining land belonging to the Vendor or his predecessors or successors in title and nothing in these presents shall be construed to impose any restriction whatsoever upon the user of the adjoining land of the Vendor or his predecessors or successors in title or to create a building scheme''

    The title plan doesnt show it, but both plots have a rear extensions too. Our back garden + side is mainly concrete with garage + few bedding runs...Theirs has a nicer bit of green space, has a small lawn + bedding runs, then garage + concrete drive along the side. 

    The neighbour obviosuly doesnt want a front fence up as makes their frontage look smaller, but i'd like to seperate it if possible to gain the gardening space make it our own without looking 'shared'.

    End of essay! Thanks in advance for thoughts on this one
    I see this will not end well.

    Are you going to have a fence all the way to the pavement?

    It will make both driveways narrow and hard to access safely.

    Did you ever get on with your neighbours before now?
  • JGB1955
    JGB1955 Posts: 3,841 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 16 July at 6:59PM
    How far, from the road, does the 'shared drive' go?

    Are there any covenants regarding fences in front gardens (we're not allowed any...)?
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  • Ectophile
    Ectophile Posts: 7,966 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Photogenic Name Dropper
    I don't see any boundary marked "T" on that plan.

    ''The Purchaser shall not by reason of these presents acquire any right or easement of light air or otherwise which would interfere with the unrestricted user of any adjoining land belonging to the Vendor or his predecessors or successors in title and nothing in these presents shall be construed to impose any restriction whatsoever upon the user of the adjoining land of the Vendor or his predecessors or successors in title or to create a building scheme''
    I think the horrible bit of legalese says that you can't block access to the neighbour's land.  But I'm not sure.

    If it sticks, force it.
    If it breaks, well it wasn't working right anyway.
  • jinsta
    jinsta Posts: 15 Newbie
    10 Posts
    JGB1955 said:
    How far, from the road, does the 'shared drive' go?

    Are there any covenants regarding fences in front gardens (we're not allowed any...)?

    The pic i marked with lines shows the full driveway, the darker bit at bottom of pic is the dropped kerb we both drive into, bit past that at end of black line is the is the road. The shared driveway starts aafter dropped kerb
  • jinsta
    jinsta Posts: 15 Newbie
    10 Posts
    Ectophile said:
    I don't see any boundary marked "T" on that plan.

    ''The Purchaser shall not by reason of these presents acquire any right or easement of light air or otherwise which would interfere with the unrestricted user of any adjoining land belonging to the Vendor or his predecessors or successors in title and nothing in these presents shall be construed to impose any restriction whatsoever upon the user of the adjoining land of the Vendor or his predecessors or successors in title or to create a building scheme''
    I think the horrible bit of legalese says that you can't block access to the neighbour's land.  But I'm not sure.


    Yes, i'm not sure either...but they dont have any claim to cross my land where i want to put fence really. They have own drive way to access the other side of it (their land)  
  • JGB1955
    JGB1955 Posts: 3,841 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    jinsta said:
    JGB1955 said:
    How far, from the road, does the 'shared drive' go?

    Are there any covenants regarding fences in front gardens (we're not allowed any...)?

    The pic i marked with lines shows the full driveway, the darker bit at bottom of pic is the dropped kerb we both drive into, bit past that at end of black line is the is the road. The shared driveway starts aafter dropped kerb
    But, presumably, the shared drive extends a long way towards the houses  from the kerb.

    #2 Saving for Christmas 2024 - £1 a day challenge. £325 of £366
  • magpies79
    magpies79 Posts: 401 Forumite
    Fifth Anniversary 100 Posts Name Dropper
    Could you not Do a fence like this could always connect a gate across your drive closing it off while not restricting access to the shared drive 

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  • WIAWSNB
    WIAWSNB Posts: 761 Forumite
    500 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 16 July at 9:59PM
    magpies79 said:
    Could you not Do a fence like this could always connect a gate across your drive closing it off while not restricting access to the shared drive 

    Pretty sure that is what the intention is.
    Jinsta, I presume they have a RoW over the first part of the drive, as it would be too narrow otherwise - and ditto for you?
    Anyhoo, I see nothing in what you've told us that would prevent you from doing what you propose. But make darned sure you mark it out accurately, where the boundary line hits the drive.

  • jinsta
    jinsta Posts: 15 Newbie
    10 Posts
    Boohoo said:

    I see this will not end well.

    Are you going to have a fence all the way to the pavement?

    It will make both driveways narrow and hard to access safely.

    Did you ever get on with your neighbours before now?

    This is prob better pic. 

    *Black line is boundary line. 
    *Yellow is where i want fence. 
    *Blue is where i want bedding area. 

    Google maps makes it look a bit smaller then it actually is, but the fence would just stay within the existing grass section/area. 

    It would also only go up to 'their' existing concrete drive (where grass ends at moe), so wont be making anyone's driveway smaller and access remains the same as before, leaving any full 'right of way' to their driveway (even though deeds don't specify any). I want the flower bed more then the fence, but i don't want any my side/your side issues with overgrow, so fence just acts as the barrier.

    With relation to relationship with neighbor, I mean its civil, just not super pally. We are a bit Sainsburys...they a more Waitrose :) Think in all the years been here, prob count number of times actually been round on one hand and vice versa. Will have a chat if see them and seem ok...but then just hardcore keyboard warrior type when sending whatsapp messages moaning about grass and parking and noise (even during acceptable working hours), when know we are having house done. I get folk work from home now and weathers been hot, but just dont need aggro. Never lost my cool with them over anything and stay polite, but moaning about what we do on our own property is bit much. They are a tad bit snobby and always have been, but the green eyes have come out over some of this.










  • jinsta
    jinsta Posts: 15 Newbie
    10 Posts
    WIAWSNB said:
    magpies79 said:
    Could you not Do a fence like this could always connect a gate across your drive closing it off while not restricting access to the shared drive 

    Pretty sure that is what the intention is.
    Jinsta, I presume they have a RoW over the first part of the drive, as it would be too narrow otherwise - and ditto for you?
    Anyhoo, I see nothing in what you've told us that would prevent you from doing what you propose. But make darned sure you mark it out accurately, where the boundary line hits the drive.


    More like this. I'm not adding another gate or restrictions anywhere, the 'entrance' has a shared gate. I'm just wanting to box in my own grass area in/leave them to have own seperate lawn to do what they please with.

    They are still free to use their drive as they did and we will both still share joint access in over one another (from entrance to fork). Technically some of the their drive belongs to us, but wont impose anything here. Last (or first) fence post on grass just acts as new marker for where their personal driveway ends. 

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